| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| lastlostmonkey |
Posted - 11/30/2005 : 05:02:48
Hello,
I am three weeks on from 'discovering' Sarno's ideas. I have read Healing Back Pain and am in the middle of the MindBody Prescription. A lot of it makes sense to me, the different types of conditions, the things that were happening at the onset of my last (and most obvious) TMS type pain etc.
But at the same time (and at the risk of offending!) a lot of what is in the books seems general to the point of being vague. I can't decide whether that is because it is almost common sense, e.g. a friend of mine referred to the risk of further heart surgery for a work colleague because of the stressed way that the collleague dealt with his work, an example of the way that it is commonly accepted that some conditions are caused or exacerbated by emotional or psychological responses. Or whether it is because it hasn't yet been 'proven' in a way that other medical people trust (again, I am not sure what to make of this). Or whether it is just very vague and actually a load of nonsense (no offence intended - I am trying to think things through here).
So what I wanted to find out was: how did you all move from the point of reading the books or however you came across TMS as an idea to the point where you wholeheartedly believed that was what you 'had'? How, especially if you have relapses, do you stay sure that it is TMS and not a physical cause? And how do you distinguish, when different symptoms appear, between what is a TMS type symptom and what is a symptom with a physical cause? A lot of big questions, but all answers appreciated.
Thanks,
thelastlostmonkey |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| almost there |
Posted - 12/06/2005 : 19:12:32
For some people I think they can't get past the idea that they have to do a prescribed list of "things" in order to get well.....I think these are the people who fall into the category of concrete thinkers....maybe it is easier for the people who are abstract thinkers....in other words those that are able to visualize without having to "see"....not that one is necessarily better than the other....just different....everyone's brain is wired differently....several people on the forum have been talking about Fred Amir and his methods and his book....supposedly he is an "apostle" of Dr. Sarno and in his book he gives explicit steps to follow Dr. Sarno's concepts....I think some people may need this structure...my one son falls into this category....he is hung up on what steps do I take to get rid of this back pain....my older son (who actually introduced me to Dr. Sarno) was able to cure his back pain with reading HBP and seeing the John Stossel piece on 20/20....any thoughts on these ideas? |
| n/a |
Posted - 12/06/2005 : 19:09:50
quote:
Originally posted by Nor
Okay, so what do you do when you've been doing all your Sarno "homework" - reading, journalling, digging at emotions but you still can't seem to lick it. I'm getting frustrated. Any advice?
Are you resuming all normal physical activity? Are you doing anything to avoid the pain? If you are doing anything to avoid pain then you still have doubts about the Sarno diagnosis. |
| Nor |
Posted - 12/06/2005 : 18:10:03
Okay, so what do you do when you've been doing all your Sarno "homework" - reading, journalling, digging at emotions but you still can't seem to lick it. I'm getting frustrated. Any advice? |
| wrldtrv |
Posted - 12/04/2005 : 22:55:14
Thanks for the link to the 20-20 show. You're right, it was very persuasive. |
| ralphyde |
Posted - 12/04/2005 : 16:11:01
I am a natural skeptic too, but have become a believer in Dr. Sarno's methods. Another skeptic was ABC's 20/20 host, John Stossel, who was turned on to Sarno by a coworker over 5 years ago, and after twenty years of back pain, he said, he was quickly cured by Dr. Sarno. The 20/20 segment they did on Dr. Sarno is very persuasive, and I suggest you watch it online at: http://www.goodnewsbroadcast.com/sarno2020.ram and there's a segment from Rosie O'Donnell' show from about the same time at: http://www.goodnewsbroadcast.com/sarnorosie.ram
The video quality is poor, but the content is excellent. The 20/20 segment is about 15 minutes long and the Rosie segment about six minutes, well worth watching right online.
Also, believing in the method is quite important. TMS, which is very devious, can hide behind doubt.
Ralph |
| vegomatic |
Posted - 12/04/2005 : 09:53:18
quote:
Originally posted by wrldtrv
But my skeptical side says, hey, if Sarno is really on to something big, why, after so many years have not many others (researchers, psychologists) jumped on board? Look at all the money insurance companies could save if they didn't have to pay for useless MRI's, CT Scans, and other diagnostic tests.
Unfortunately there is more money to be made in treatment than in curing. Just look at all the pain killers, muscle relaxants, heating pads, physical therapies, etc. that are out there. If Sarno's theories were accepted by the mainstream medical industry there would be a lot of money lost.
Sarno has tried to reach out to the mainstream medical community and has basically been ignored. How's that for a source of rage? 
My own psychiatrist, who I have been seeing for 10 years has scoffed at Sarno's theories, even after I have explained to him Sarno's success with me. Oh by the way, my psychiatrist has never read Sarno's work. So how can he speak negatively about it then? Interesting ay?
My psychiatrist has saved my life over the years but there was always trouble getting to the root of my problems (OCD and anxiety - both TMS equivalents). Sarno has found the root.
I am now seeing one of Sarno's psychologists to help ween me off antidepressants. My psychiatrist still monitors me over the phone to see how I'm doing and to determine whether to lower the meds. So far, I'm feeling the best I have felt in 15 years.
So, for me, this works. Sorry for the tangent and I hope this helps.
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| saga |
Posted - 12/03/2005 : 11:20:47
Read some of the reviews for the book on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0446675156/ref=cm_rev_prev/102-0382915-9052132?%5Fencoding=UTF8&customer-reviews.sort%5Fby=-SubmissionDate&n=507846&s=books&customer-reviews.start=1
94 reviews and 4 1/2 out 5 starts is it's average.
Whether Dr. Sarno's scientific data is bunk or not, the theory is making MAJOR life changes for many chronic sufferers. We're talking about chronic sufferers of a decade and longer being completely cured within weeks.
You'll never convince everyone, but personally I have all the proof that I require. And I'm a total skeptic by nature.
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| wrldtrv |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 23:24:50
"Lastlostmonkey"--Maybe it's my overly skeptical nature, but as much as I would like to believe wholeheartedly in the TMS theory, I admit to constant doubting. Yes, looking at myself I can see so many instances where my symptoms came on suddenly without rhyme or reason, disappeared as quickly and then reappeared... Or all the times I went to doctors with symptoms only to be told everything was normal. Certainly much of this sounds like TMS and maybe it is. But my skeptical side says, hey, if Sarno is really on to something big, why, after so many years have not many others (researchers, psychologists) jumped on board? Look at all the money insurance companies could save if they didn't have to pay for useless MRI's, CT Scans, and other diagnostic tests. The point of all of this is to say that the people on this board are probably coming from a variety of positions. Some are true believers, maybe because they have seen miraculous results. Others are more lukewarm because, while the TMS ideas make sense to them, they haven't seen the results in their own lives. |
| redskater |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 08:56:52
I think in Sarno's book he talks about nerves and how if you irritate one long enough it will just go numb or something to that effect and would quit hurting. Logically, why would it take 1 year for it to heal? It's like people who have open heart surgery and within a few months are pain free. I was always told that my scar tissue was what makes me hurt, but don't people that have surgery have scar tissue and they recover. I really have to think more logically now. If it doesn't make sense, it's probably TMS.
Start testing things out, if it doesn't hurt any worse or slightly subsides it probably isn't doing any more damage. I've had to do some things a few times until the pain just gives up and starts to go away. Remember, your mind is wanting you to think you'll re-injure yourself and keep you from getting better. It's all a mental game. Either you win or your subconsious.
Cheers,
Gaye |
| lastlostmonkey |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 04:02:36
Thanks, Saga, that's what I needed to know I think.
If I consider the latest manifestation of the TMS (for which I was given quite a consistent structural explanation for, and physical therapy which was largely successful) I have some doubts about it being TMS. This despite the lingering uncertainty about the structural explanation, e.g. if, as they say, nerves take a year to heal, and the pain is due to damaging them, why is it that I can be pain free at weekends but it only takes a few hours typing before it comes on again? Surely if there is a delay it works both ways and the pain should be delayed onset as well...?
If I think about all the little nagging undiagnosed things I have had over the last 10-15 years, headaches which weren't migraines, repeated UTIs which tested negative for infection every time etc., and if I think about what was happening when this last really came on in earnest, it makes a lot more sense. And if I work on this now perhaps it will avoid the next thing...
We are so steeped in the physical that a lot of my reservations are due to fear that I will embrace this and it will be wrong and I will damage myself further. I guess that's the part you have to keep trying at. Thanks for your input and support. I have found some older comments on the board as well which were very useful.
thelastlostmonkey |
| Stryder |
Posted - 11/30/2005 : 17:08:49
quote:
Originally posted by saga
But after reading this forum I can see that it does come back for many people but they are usually able to fight it off with some reapplying of the principles.
Good point. Its easy to "fall off the wagon", especially if you have not permenantly addressed your inner rage.
If the unconscious rage returns (for example, a new unmanaged stressful situation arises), then some symptoms will likely return. This is what Dave is talking about when he says that TMSers have TMS for life. If you have not found a way to forever change your perfectionist ways, then you may be one of those who may have a recurrance.
On the other hand, some people are cured for life from the time they buy in to the TMS theory.
The main thing that "did it" for me to buy in: reading HBP after multiple misdiagnosis by the mainstream medical community for over 20 years. It just all fit and made sense.
Take care, -Stryder |
| saga |
Posted - 11/30/2005 : 16:44:44
Hi lastlostmonkey,
Here's how I knew I had TMS...
1) Dr. Sarno's book (mind body prescription) said that most TMS sufferers have had 5 different stress related problems.
I identified 5 distinct problems I've had in the last 3 years.
Irritable bowel syndrome
urinary problems
tension headaches
upper back pain
neck spasms
There were other problems too I'm not mentioning. There is no way these problems could be physically connected with each other and somehow I didn't tie them together until reading Dr. Sarnos book.
2) Every other solution had failed. Physio, Massage, Dental tests, eye tests, many drugs, cat scans, chiro etc.
3) The personality descriptions were RIGHT on target for me. I am an extreme goodist, worrier, perfectionist.
4) It WORKED. After being in a state of debilitating neck spasms for a month and debilitating back pain and headaches for almost 2 years I was almost normal a few days after reading Dr. Sarnos book. I have been normal for 2 months now.
I just had my first relapse and of began to question TMS because in his book he says "most people will be cured for life". I think is good that he doesn't tell you it will come back because it is important that you don't think it will come back for you to be cured.
But after reading this forum I can see that it does come back for many people but they are usually able to fight it off with some reapplying of the principles.
I think my neck pain is on its way out now. Today was way better then yesterday.
I'm a total skeptic by nature lastlostmonkey, but you can't argue with what I posted above. The proof is in the pudding.
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