| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| atg |
Posted - 11/19/2005 : 17:12:59
This is my first time posting. I was diagnosed with TMS last month by Dr. Schechter in Los Angeles. I have had pretty severe low back pain ever since January of this year. The pain is dramatically worse in certain chairs (movie theater chairs, for example...)
Dr. Schechter told me that it's simply the placebo effect that certain chairs are worse than others. Has anyone else had experiences where chairs with minimal back support were more painful?
I definitely fit the TMS personality type, and hope to soon intellectually and emotionally accept it 100%. But the fact that my pain seems so contingent on my physical positioning is holding me back.
Is it possible that the lumbar support actually does help due to a TMS induced lack of blood flow to my lower back muscles?
Thanks,
Alan |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/21/2005 : 18:56:38
Don Dubin has a profound understanding of the psychology behind TMS. He had very sever TMS and has since recovered. He takes clients over the phone. |
| verdammt |
Posted - 11/21/2005 : 18:54:03
quote:
Originally posted by Fox
Verdammt - I had to laugh out loud when I read your post - it's so true for me about the movie theater being a torture chamber if every variable is not just perfect...Let me add that another variable for me, Mr. Perfection, is the seating. If I don't get the center seat in the center row, I feel cheated or angry at myself for not getting to the theater early enough to grab this prime location.
Heh, heh. That ain't the end of it, either. Here's the scenario: perfect seat in the center, no one behind, no one one either side, clear view ahead, comfy chair, volume perfect, no distracting smells, no slurping, no crunching...perfect!
Ok. Now, choose one of the following options:
1. heartburn (no Tums)
2. headache (no Tylenol)
3. sneeze (no Kleenex)
4. bladder pressure (miss 3 to 5 mins. of the movie)
Enjoy! |
| atg |
Posted - 11/21/2005 : 15:55:52
Thanks all, your comments were super helpful. I can definitely relate to some of those control issues. Peter, I totally feel you in terms of needing something to obsess about and inventing one if one isn't available.
Esher, your theory about subconsciously being able to tell when your lower back muscles are working harder is very intriguing. It's really helped me further accept the diagnosis.
Thanks to all your responses I'm much further along the acceptance line than I was even several days ago. Because I have back pain every time I sit, it was hard to accept that the pain was purely psychological as opposed to positional as well. Over the last couple days I have been able to correlate certain pain (both knee pain and tension headache) with a psychological response (putting pressure on myself to do something right, or perfectly.)
I'm seeing TMS therapist, Dr. Dubin next week. Hopefully this will help me further isolate some of the painful thoughts.
Alan |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/21/2005 : 14:33:31
Dr. Schechter is 100% correct when he told you that these supports are simply the placebo effect at work and it reinforces a structural (physical) problem.
As for Verdammt's statement about control I think also control over neighbors, ie not being able to control the noise from their apartments coming into yours, is also a huge issue that creates a lot of inner tension. At least that is the case for me. I am always thinking of those things that bother me. If I don't have something to obssess about I will find it in no time. This leads to a lot of inner anger and anxiety. I am still trying to come to grips with these little and very annoying obssessions. |
| Fox |
Posted - 11/21/2005 : 13:09:22
Verdammt - I had to laugh out loud when I read your post - it's so true for me about the movie theater being a torture chamber if every variable is not just perfect...Let me add that another variable for me, Mr. Perfection, is the seating. If I don't get the center seat in the center row, I feel cheated or angry at myself for not getting to the theater early enough to grab this prime location. |
| esher |
Posted - 11/20/2005 : 10:06:31
Hi Alan,
I have exactly the same situation, although mercifully less so every day now that I have understood and accepted the TMS diagnosis. The first thing I would say is be patient. It takes a while to unlearn the pain patterns that have been a part of your life for so long, even if your conscious mind completely accepts the diagnosis. I don't pretend that it's easy to be patient (it certainly isn't for me!) but noticing slow, incremental changes has been motivating for me.
I have a theory on chairs, but let me make a disclaimer that I am not an MD and this is only a theory based on my personal experience. When I sit in a chair that is not totally supportive, or at a bad height for working, etc., I may actually be doing extra work to hold myself up in an erect sitting position. I find this particularly in chairs where my knees are above the level of my pelvis. When the knees are above the pelvis, the back has a tendency to round a bit. So unconsciously I try to hold myself up; my back muscles engage, my brain goes into panic mode ("oh no! I can't hold myself up") and it spirals downhill from there. This is, I think, where the TMS is kicking in; anyone could get tired just holding themselves up in an unsupported chair. It's the response, I think, that characterizes the TMS patient. The reason I no longer blame the chair for this is that I am able to sit in chairs that are even worse than office chairs at restaurants and elsewhere when I'm focused on something else like good food or good conversation.
On the other hand, I think there's something to be said for good ergonomics. There's nothing wrong with being comfortable and at ease when you relax or when you work, as long as "comfortable" to you means "ah, that feels nice" and not "so my back won't hurt". I bought a TempurPedic bed long ago before I knew about TMS, but I have no intention of getting rid of the bed. It's a really comfortable bed :)
As far as physical therapy goes, my understanding (and other people, correct me if I'm wrong) is that Dr. Sarno's objection to it is that because it is prescribed specifically for the back by medical practitioners, it enforces the idea that the problem is physical and not mental. On the other hand, he does specifically encourage physical activity, gradually increasing to rigorous levels. I doubt there's anything wrong with back exercises as part of an overall strength and conditioning program. I try to view the back extensions and crunches that I do in exactly the same way I view bicep curls or bench presses: building strength and endurance in the whole body.
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| NLK |
Posted - 11/20/2005 : 06:22:28
Yup.... my back used to (and sometimes still does) lock up if I lie flat on my back on a hard surface. It would happen during "relaxation" at the end of yoga class. Same thing as the chair though... it's all about control. You have to sit or lie in a certain position or your back will hurt... it's all BS. |
| atg |
Posted - 11/19/2005 : 23:38:36
Thanks. Glad to know that someone else needed the back pillow to sit and was eventually able to ditch it.
About 3 months ago I started a pretty intense daily physical therapy program. It seemed to significantly help reduce the pain I felt while sitting. About 2 weeks ago I stopped it cold turkey, telling myself that the benefits I got were a placebo. The pain gradually increased and after 10 or 12 days it was approaching the pre-physical therapy pain. With all this, it's hard to accept that the physical therapy did nothing. Has anyone else had this problem?
Additionally ever since my initial back spasm, I feel pain in my lower back when I lie flat on my back with my legs straight out in front of me. Has anyone else had pain in this position?
Thanks,
Alan |
| Jim1999 |
Posted - 11/19/2005 : 22:05:33
Alan,
When my TMS was bad, chairs were a huge issue for me. I bought a special chair for use in the office and sometimes even brought it along to restaurants! I had a Tempurpedic lumbar support pillow that I took with me other times. That was all a bunch of nonsense.
Getting up the courage to sit in "bad" chairs (and then "worse" chairs) was a signficant part of my recovery. I now sit on all types of chairs, and occasionally I pick the "worst" chair in the room to show myself there's nothing wrong with it.
Jim |
| verdammt |
Posted - 11/19/2005 : 18:35:13
Forget the chair. The real issue is CONTROL. Control over your surroundings. We TMSer's are control freaks. Everything has to be perfect or we're miserable. A theater is a torture chamber for us. No control over other movie-goers (talking, kicking the backs of our chairs, coughing, crunching popcorn, wearing too much perfume/aftershave, etc.), no control over when the movie starts, no control over the volume, and on and on.
A non-adustable chair is just what we need: an inanimate object to complain about, so we won't sound like the obsessive-compulsive nut-jobs we really are. |
| Baseball65 |
Posted - 11/19/2005 : 18:22:59
quote:
Is it possible that the lumbar support actually does help due to a TMS induced lack of blood flow to my lower back muscles?
Thanks,
Alan
No...they do Not help..it is a stone cold placebo.All placebos that work are ultimately interwoven into the complex conditioning that produces TMS.Continuing to use the Lumbar support is like a heroin addict continuing to use heroin...he's not getting high anymore,just prolonging the time until he eventually has to kick.
You may as well get started now...the longer you use structural supports,the longer it will take for your complete healing.
-piggy
Baseball65 |
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