| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| seanf |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 17:20:30
Hi everyone. I've posted this message on the Tar Pit Yoga board as well. Just figured I'd throw it up here to get more input...
I just read The Mindbody Prescription last week and I'm working through Amir and Schechter's books right now. Of course, as a newbie to TMS, I have my doubts. My symptoms, for the last 11 months or so, have been primarily weakness/achiness in the fingers and wrists as well as occasional forearm pain (which I have attributed to computer/guitar-related RSI) and also knee pain and instability, which has been diagnosed as patellar tendonitis.
A good deal of my situation fits in squarely with TMS theory, such as:
-high level of emotional stress at time of onset -seemingly low level of physical stress (I had only been typing heavily for about 2 weeks, barely anything before that)
-focus on physical symptoms has consumed much of my time, distracting me from other issues
-occurence of pain in multiple areas
-failure of other treatment methods
Nevertheless, some of my "structural" issues are still nagging at me:
-my left leg is longer than the right leg, distorting my spine, and I imagine contributing to my knee pain (could this be a "benign" condition, as Sarno claims herniated discs are?)
-my posture is collapsed, which I have been told is creating neurovascular compression (if TMS pain is all about blood flow, couldn't this also be a factor?)
And I suppose one of my biggest reservations is that I haven't been able to relate directly to any of the TMS stories I've read (or for that matter, RSI stories).
Anybody have any suggestions or encouragement? I could use it.
Sean
|
| 10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dave |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 12:13:31
quote:
Originally posted by seanf
I've been seeing a neuromuscular therapist ...
Wilf said it well: stop all physical treatments to "fix" your pain. If you don't do this, then you don't accept the TMS theory, period.
It seems to me you are still searching for answers, and looking for inconsistencies between your situation and others who have had success treating their own symptoms as TMS. Maybe you need to exhaust all of those paths before you are ready to fully accept the TMS diagnosis.
Everybody's TMS is different. Just because you don't have the same exact symptoms (such as acute pain) doesn't mean it is not TMS. Think of TMS as a process that is optimized for each individual; optimized for maximum distraction; optimized for the best chance to convince you that it is not TMS. |
| Wilf |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 10:27:39
Seanf,
There is only one way that you can repudiate the structural: Stop all treatments.
I suffered back pain for over 40 years. I had every imagainable "hands on" treatment, including 30 years of Chiropractic adjustments, manipulation by an Osteopath, "body work" by an Acupressure person, Feldenkrais work, many, many massages etc., etc.
None of these "treatments" gave me more than temporary relief. Many exacerbated my pain.
I stopped all treatments over 2 years ago and have never felt the need for any type of treatment.
You have to stop every thing, even the ones that sound good. |
| seanf |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 09:59:02
I'm kind of in the same position you were, JosephB. I've been seeing a neuromuscular therapist who's very good and very knowledgeable about RSI. She does a lot of a work on trigger points, which are areas of tight bound muscles that (theoretically) cause nerve compression. But, like you said, the ultimate litmus test is whether the relief is permanent or temporary. It's too soon for me to tell, but I suspect it's temporary. Most RSI books I've read recommend massage therapy 3-4 times/week over a period of months. At $60-90/session, that seems ridiculous.
I have read Nate McNamara's page and I've been in touch with him. His is probably the story I can relate to the most, but from the sounds of it his RSI was much more severe. As I mentioned earlier, I rarely have any sharp acute pain (like most RSI sufferers and most of the TMS back pain people), but rather extreme achiness and weakness, primarily in the fingers and wrists. I'm sure it's neurological in either event. (In the Medscape interview, Sarno mentioned that he now suspects TMS is more neurological than muscular, which I find interesting...)
Another curious note: After being told the other day that my left leg was longer than the right leg (and dwelling on it more than I probably should have), I began to notice an achy pain in my left hip.
|
| JosephB |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 05:11:21
I especially like the title of your post, "Repudiating The Structural". It reminds me of my experience about five years ago, when I first learned about Dr. Sarno's theories and read and reread his three books, MOBP, HBP and MBP, many times. I had been going to a chiropractor for spinal adjustments for about 25 years (yes, 25 years) for sinus headaches, lower back pain, and sciatica. Also, for multiple sclerosis, which details I have previously posted on this board. I must admit that the chiropractor's adjustments for those "subluxations" (which are supposedly the cause of the pain and discomfort) did me a lot of good, but only always temporarily. After reading Dr. Sarno's books, where he has repeatedly stated that one must "repudiate the structural", I had to make a big, big decision! After 25 years, how could I possibly repudiate my chiropractor, who has helped me (but only always temporarily) thoughout those years? My dear wife advised me that I should continue to read the books, AND ALSO, to continue visiting the chiropractor whenever necessary. I told my wife that I cannot do both, according to Dr. Sarno, and that I must "repudiate my chiropractor", which I did, fortunately. Since five years ago, I have not visited my chiropractor, and my previous pain manifestations have essentially gone away, except for my recent traumatic experience about one year ago which brought back sciatica, which details I have previously posted on this board.
Always remember TMS'ers, Repudiate The Structural, and Think Psychological. |
| JoeW |
Posted - 08/03/2004 : 19:11:19
Have you read Nate McNamara's TMS/RSI story (http://www.conquerrsi.com/) ? certain aspects of his story seem close to yours (computer and guitar use, wanting scientific explanation).
I was lucky enough to notice considerable pain relief after one reading of Mindbody Prescription, and that was enough to convert me. For others the process can take longer. Good luck anyway - you will almost always find encouraging words here if you need them. |
| seanf |
Posted - 08/03/2004 : 18:44:30
Thanks to all for the posts.
MikeC: As far as the collapsed posture goes, it's not really a technical term. I simply meant that my shoulders are rounded and my posture is slouched with my head jutting forward. Conventional RSI (repetitive strain injury) theory generally associates this with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome, which is a pinching of the nerves and veins in the shoulder area. While this makes sense to me, I don't think there's much hard science to back it up, and it seems familiar to diagnoses like sciatica, which Sarno contends is harmless.
I guess its hard for me because there's so little "hard" scientific evidence in both RSI and TMS theory, and I'm a very scientifically minded person. But I am leaning strongly towards TMS, because it explains a lot of additional things for me, so I suppose I should just take that leap of faith.
Thanks again for all your help. |
| MikeC |
Posted - 08/03/2004 : 14:39:39
Hello,
This is also my first time responding to anyone on this forum. I want to thank all of you for allowing me to share your company and hopefully there is someone out there I can help.
Regarding the topic at hand, there is a lot of things that are difficult in dealing with TMS and repudiating structural findings is one of them. Sean, let me try to help you with your issues:
1) I know one person who was born with malformed hips. She is in her 30s now. Because of it, she walks and stands distoredly. When I asked her if her back bothers her, she told me she has little or no pain ANYWHERE below the hips. Also, my mom has broken her hip on one side of her and her kneecap on the other side. She also has uneven leg lengths due to Paget's Disease. Due to this, she walks somewhat crooked. NO BACK PAIN (I hate her for that). I know a few others like that but want to save time.
2) I'm not sure what a "collapsed posture" is and I thought I had heard it all in 23 years of back treatments. I'm not making light of it but it sounds like your spine has some quirks to it probably like everyone else does. A lot of my aunts and uncles are in there 70s and 80s. You would think by now, they wouldn't have the "perfect" spine either. However, I don't know one of them who complains about back/leg pain.
3) Regarding your ability about relating to others, do yourself a favor and go onto Amazon.com and read the reviews of the Sarno books. Between the three books, there are over 300 reviews with the overwhelming majority of them highly favorable.
Probably the hardest thing about dealing with this disorder is the isolation one feels because you are going it alone. Remember this, Sarno and his disciples (Drs. Sopher, Schecter, Sinel) have helped/cured thousands. Some of them felt better quickly, others took weeks/months. Don't be discouraged if you are one of the weeks/months people. I am as well for many reasons (doubt, years of conditioning, failure to consistently deal with program) but I find myself doing things that I would never had done a few months ago and not find myself in any additional discomfort.
Anyway, I've gone on too long. I hope this helps you and some others.
Thanks
Mike C |
| GeeWhiz |
Posted - 08/03/2004 : 00:05:59
Sean,
Susie and Jimmy are so right!!! I am pretty much pain free at this time.
I have been told that one leg is shorter than the other. However, one chiropractor told me that is not true. It was just that my ball joint dosen't always sit correctly in its place and gives the appearance of being shorter.
I also have severe scoliosis. More than one chiropractor has said mine is the worst case they have ever seen. However, some people with just a very tiny curvature to their spine have even more pain that I do. (When I do have the pain, that is.)
Keep reading the posts here. This gang and what they have to say has helped me very much. |
| Irish Jimmy |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 20:26:22
Sean, repudiating the structural is hard, especially in the beginning. Focus on the TMS principles, think psycological and not physical. When you notice improvements, however small, build on them and make note of them. This has worked for me. The most important thing is to not give up and stay positive!! Good Luck. |
| Susie |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 19:19:11
Hi sean, I think almost everyone has one leg longer than the other. When I was a kid I worked at a hack stable (horses) and I raised and lowered stirrups for riders all day long. Hardly anyone had their stirrups the same on both sides. Many of us have poor posture. I feel, as Sarno says, that doctors are lacking the knowledge of an alternative diagnosis so they look for anything structural that coincides with someone's pain. I have had most of your symptoms. Hand and arm pain and weakness along with finger twitching. My arm felt like a noodle. You sound like classic tms. You have nothing to loose by giving it a try as you say you have been unsuccessful with other treatments. My suggestion to you is that if you do jump in, jump all the way. I don't think you can give your brain a chance to wiggle out of it because it will try you. You have to convince your conscious mind you have tms or your unconcious will never buy it. |
|
|
