| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| marytabby |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 08:28:08
This is really frustrating but I guess there's nothing I can do, or is there?
Someone I work with told me back in the winter how her 39 yr. old husband "hurt his back" three years ago and he's had to since retire from being a police officer and has not worked for three years. He had surgery last Christmas for a herniated disk and is still disabled, so he can't work or do anything "strenuous." Back in early spring when I found out about Sarno/TMS I shared with her how much progress I had made and how the doctors were all telling me the same thing they told her husband, the usual - that my MRI showed herniations and stenosis, arthritis, on and on and how I got so much better from the reading. She said she'd think about sharing the info with him. Now all this time passed and obviously they are not interested in the TMS concepts. She said her husband "doesn't fit that profile and he really did truly just injure his back in a freak way." So all this time I never did know what it was that "wrecked" this guy's back. So yesterday I asked, "what was it that he did to hurt his back so badly?" She said he was taking a tire out of a trunk and pulled his back out and herniated a disk. Ok, now that I know what I know about TMS and about all the diagnoses that everyone on this board, including me has had, I am holding back on repeating to her all the stuff about how our backs do not just break down, and your husband's back was probably fine all along, now he's worse from all the PT, chiros, invasive back surgery and now having to retire from the police force. I'm sure it's enough to feed the whole back syndrome into overkill. So I chose to shut my mouth as she was telling me yesterday how her 220 lb, 6'0 strong, young husband herniated his back simply by "twisting to pull a regular size tire out of a trunk". I have to tell you all my frustration at hearing this, especially because he had surgery for it and is now being told he can never lift anything heavy again, can't do heavy housework, etc. It's killing me that they accept these doctor's orders and that I tried to enlighten her with the book. I know others on here have had the same frustration. I just find it so hard to keep my mouth shut because I am a very assertive person and when I feel I can help someone, I just want to shake them and say, "don't you listen?" But obviously she didn't care to try the books for her husband last winter. So it's not like I'm saying what do I do here? I just can't stand it when I hear how people are "permanently disabled" from lifting a tire out of a car trunk. She's obviously frustrated that he's not working and can't even do heavy housework, etc. and they have two small kids. Aggghhhh!! That's all, just venting. |
| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| n/a |
Posted - 08/29/2005 : 05:47:38
I think you may be on to something, Baseball when you suggest that maybe it's when the pain reaches the stage that normal functioning becomes an impossibilty - that's when they become receptive to the possibility of TMS.
I am pretty sure that I would have rejected it if I had not reached a point where I really did not want to wake up in the morning.
Another thing that would be interesting to find out is, of those people who benefit from the knowledge and acceptance that a psychosomatic cause is behind their pysical pain; how many had worked it out for themselves before they found out about Dr Sarno's work. These ideas had been buzzing around in my head for a while when I began to search out information to back up what I suspected.
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| Baseball65 |
Posted - 08/26/2005 : 09:52:09
@ Everybody.
Remember too: There are some people who are absolutely,positively dependent on their pain for survival !!!!
Many of the people I have met who are obviously suffering from TMS have some Horrible,terrible deep dark secret or life situation that they cannot escape for whatever reason!
Some have raped,molested or killed someone.Some have cheated on spouses,are stealing at work or some other less extreme offense,or combination of smaller ones.Some people are in a marriage that is beyond the boundaries of our comprehension in it's pain and illness,but MUST remain Married for the higher Moral imperative...the children.
For whatever reason,Most people NEED their pain.I needed mine.
I was only fortunate enough to reach a point of exasperation beyond measure...only YOU people would understand.In fact,I'm not altogether sure these people we try to help are in nearly as much pain as we were,because pain is a great persuader...they haven't had enough.They haven't tried enough things.I only give the 'pitch' to people who are near suicidal in their frustration and exasperation.
If I meet someone who can 'function' with their pain,i.e. go to work,participate in social events and what not,I don't even bother.
Baseball65 |
| ralphyde |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 17:30:21
Laura,
I thought the Saltz book was quite good (Becoming Real: Defeating the Stories We Tell Ourselves That Hold Us Back). She shows how our childhood "stories" affect our adult lives in negative ways. She defines five different stories, and how they come about: the Dependent, the Superachiever, the Self-defeater, the Competitor, and the Perfectionist, but most of us have varying degrees of more than one of these, and she gives techiques for learning our childhood stories then rewriting them as adults. I thought the concept was helpful and the book was pretty insightful.
Ralph
Ralph |
| Laura |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 15:26:47
Ralph,
I was the one who recommended Dr. Saltz' book. I thought it looked really good. What do you think? Is it a pretty easy read? She really seemed to know her stuff when she was on Oprah. I had it in my hand at the book store and then opted to buy the Dr. Dyer book instead. I'm glad if my recommendation helped you to understand your wife better. I'm sorry to hear things still aren't going good between you. I wish you the best.
Laura
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| ralphyde |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 14:36:35
Calvin,
Your story reminds me of John Stossel's of 20/20, who was healed by Dr. Sarno after 20 years of back pain, while his own brother, a physician at Harvard Medical School who also had "back problems" would not go to Dr. Sarno, and kept his symptoms, doing physical treatments to no avail. Go figure!
This is all told on the 20/20 segment on Dr. Sarno, which you can watch at: http://www.goodnewsbroadcast.com/sarno2020.ram
It's worth watching by any of you who haven't seen it yet.
Ralph |
| ralphyde |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 14:22:09
It's especially tough when the one who can't accept Dr. Sarno's approach is your own spouse.
She fits the profile, started reading the books, but rejected it all and won't even see a doctor qualified to diagnose TMS. Instead, she's hooked on her physical therapies, acupuncture, and spirit doctors, and remains in pain (4 years now). This one disagreement has turned our happy marriage into a separation (her choice) for 18 months now, verging on divorce.
I've tried in my most diplomatic ways to persuade her to see a TMS doc, all to no avail. It still baffles me as to why she seems to need her pain. Actually, I've gotten some good clues from reading recently; The Emotional Incest Syndrome, by Dr. Patricia Love, and Becoming Real, by Dr. Gail Saltz, both recommended here, but much mystery still remains, and there's no getting through to her.
I told this whole long sad story at: http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=766
and am still looking for help and answers.
Ralph |
| Calvin |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 14:14:54
Add me to the list of relatives that insist its medical, not TMS.
I have a brother undergoing his 4th back operation today. I was talking to him about Sarno last night, trying to give him some hope - and I found a TMS doctor right around the corner from where he lives!!!
Yet he continued to tell me that he has tried everything, that reading a silly book wouldn't help a bit, going to a "TSM-or-whatever-you-call-it doctor would only waste money.
I kept hearing, "If it worked for you, great. I'm a different story."
Since he's my brother, though, I probably won't stop trying. |
| molomaf |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 13:36:42
My cousin is now on full disability due to a myriad of symptoms- fibro being one. I told her about TMS and Dr. Sarno and she didn't want to hear it. Her first husband died of a stroke at age 35(she was 30). Her second husband was an alcoholic-still is and her son was born 2 months early and has tons of problems. Her childhood was terrible as well. I am not saying that all of those who don't accept the TMS diagnosis don't want to get better but in the case of my cousin, she needs this pain. She doesn't want to hear about anything that could make her feel better because she gets all her meds for free as she says. It's very frustrating but I don't say anything anymore.
By the way, her older sister spends half the day in bed waiting for her meds to kick in. I can't remember the name of her condition but something about frozen shoulder. She also doesn't want to hear about Dr. Sarno.
All you can do is throw it out there.
Michele |
| Laura |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 11:28:27
Mary,
You win some, you lose some. The odds I have encountered have been about 50/50. A good friend of mine has severe pain in her shoulders and upper back. I KNOW she has TMS, yet she just keeps going along on her merry way from doctor to doctor, having this scan done and that test done, always coming up empty-handed. One would think pure logic would kick in or that a person would get so exasperated with the pain that they would be willing to try ANYTHING. Not her. She'd rather tell me about the pain and tell me about all the doctor appointments she goes to. I finally stopped asking about it. She's got a lot of issues, though, I I know for a fact that Sarno's books would probably end all of her suffering.
On the other hand, I recommended the books to someone from my temple and they were cured imemdiately. He went from flat on his back to dancing around and happy. I told his wife about Dr. Sarno and the books and she hung up the phone and drove right to the book store. He read Healing Back Pain that day, and by evening was feeling good as new and was thanking me up and down.
We know this stuff works, it's just some people are too narrow minded to try something unconventional. It does take up waaayy too much energy, so I don't preach about it anymore. I share it with those who seem receptive and if they're interested I'll know it and I'll elaborate.
It's good you were able to vent here with people who "get it."
Laura
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| almost there |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 10:35:20
Baseball65,
Loved your "evangelical" to "cynical" to "neutral" comment....I went from "evangelical" to "neutral"....finding it takes a lot of energy to try and convince "sufferers" that maybe their pain might not be structural...that it just might be a mindbody thing...it's expensive too as I was buying Dr. Sarno's books HBP and MBP for them....one person didn't understand what she was reading....another who just happens to have been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia....read part of HBP...and to my knowledge hasn't complained of pain since....I'll have to ask her one day....I have a sneaking suspician she got it but for whatever reason doesn't want to own up to it! |
| guinevera |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 10:14:18
Hi Maryalma8,
I know how frustrating this is. I have a friend who has had dibilitating RSI for going on 10 years now & his life is completely dominated by it. My life used to be as well, until I was turned on to Sarno. I am now almost completely better and my outlook on life has totally changed. I still have setbacks, of course, but I am back to being the optimistic, active person I used to be, and I am working, typing, productive - and even dancing again!
I told my friend about Sarno as soon as I learned about him. I sent him links to all the resources I could find, gave him a full bibliography of Sarno, Amir, Schechter - the lot. I even gave him the phone number of someone I knew who had recovered from even more severe pain and disability than he has. But you know what? My friend hasn't even called this person, not even out of a curiosity to know more. He's read the books (I think) but I can just hear his internal dialogue saying "yeah, but my injury is not what these people have; mine is real - and much worse - so this doesn't apply to me." I saw him recently and it was really weird, becasue we didn't even talk about the fact that I was recovered. He just didn't seem to even want to know. Like it wasn't real.
But you know what? I have to let go. I can't take on his pain. I read the books, I recovered. I gave him the books. Now I just have to back off and let him go through the journey himself. Sometimes being injured becomes so much a part of someone's identity that, even though they constantly say they want to get better, at some level they're not sure what they would do if they did. |
| Baseball65 |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 10:04:30
Hi Mary.
Relax...we have all gone through very frustrating times.The altruistic instincts of anybody who HAS TMS (overconsciencious,do-gooders,perfectionist) has the secondary effect of making ALL of us evangelists...somebody saved us,so we have to share it.
Remember ...we are outnumbered 1000/1 at the very least.There is a whole idea factory dedicated to pain mythology in the collective unconscious of our culture.
I went thru my evangelical stage,and than my cynical stage...now I'm just sort of neutral.I helped 1 person last year(mentioned it to maybe 20)....saw his wife in the market the other day and he's still good,still painfree.If I live another 20 years,I'll have helped maybe 25 people. if each of them helps 25,that's 625.If it goes one step further,that's 15,625.
Anyway....I was at a skateboard park yesterday,and a man 10 years my junior and 30 pounds lighter and fitter told me he couldn't skate the pool because of his back...we swapped surgery stories and scars(show and tell)I told him about Sarno,and left it at that.
Maybe when he gets frustrated enough he'll remember.The system doesn't let anybody escape and every single pain sufferer in our culture is headed for 'complete disability' ala Healthboards.com
I used to really piss off people who would contradict me...I'd say to someone like your friend..."I guess than I'm just genetically superior to your husband...DON'T have any children,lest your inferior genes of weakness escape into the DNA pool....see 'ya at the other end of the food chain"
But I've mellowed with age.No one who you anger will ever listen.The guy who first told me was my neighbor who I really liked....and I was reeeeeeeally pissed when he implied it might be psychological.....I'd been carrying around a deep dark secret(not too deep) and the thought that they might be related was terrifying.
keep the faith
Baseball65 |
| alanc |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 09:15:36
Well ..... you're defintely a "Do Gooder". Don't let your frustratipn turn to rage . I feel the same way, like speading the gospel, don't mess with others beliefs. That includes health, diet and well being. I've learned the hard way, it's tuff to be quiet when you've had great success. Offer only when asked. |
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