| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| leegold |
Posted - 08/20/2005 : 09:33:31
hi all-
i have been going thru some very intense emotions, weeping, etc (most non-specific), since seeing dr sarno. my tms pain, as of last night, was as bad as ever (involuntary yelping).
my wife has thought over the years that i seem to unconsciously feel that 'if i am sick, then i can get love and attention'- something she thinks i learned as a child. there has always been something physically wrong w/ me (as many of you tms sufferers also have in your history).
she wonders if i unconsciously i may not want to get well (to stay sick and keep receiving the love), and wonders if i really have to go thru all of this emotional pain and release in order to heal. dr sarno DOES say, in The Mindbody Prescription, that what u do NOT need to get better is to feel and resolve all the pain and rage issues - the mind will remove the tms, in most cases, just with the KNOWLEDGE that there IS emotional pain/anger/sadness. of course we know that some will need therapy
any thoughts?
lee
btw i am continually encouraged daily to keep on keepin-on in tms recovery by the posts in this forum-thanks all. |
| 10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Tunza |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 14:19:53
quote:
One of the passages in Dr. sarno's book that helped me the most was a paragraph pertaining to the fact that if a person looks upset and is asked what is wrong...if they say they are unhappy and depressed because of their crummy life, no one wants to hear it...but if they say they have a bad back, suddenly everyone is saying "me too... I did this for it...I did that for it...here let me help you. I know how it feels...etc. etc.)
This is a perfect example of getting some "gain" as it is expressed in Dr. Sarno's book. By Dr. Sarno.
It isn't to say that a person is doing it on purpose. We are not children trying to get a toy out of the deal. We are adults who are hurting and trying to find...somehow...underneath it all...a way to get a little relief.
Coincidently the song Imagine is on my ipod. A live version. I am thinking "imagine there is no pain" Many of us can't.
Since we do not how to go about getting soothed emotionally...it gets expressed physically.
We just need to be soothed!
And the mind finds any way it can to get what it needs. Even if it is not in our bodies best interest.
Sandy
This is a great way to put it Sandy. When people say "secondary gain" they usually think of it in simplistic terms (eg somebody wanting to get paid compensation and not having to go to work anymore). But human nature is so much more complex. Our minds are trying to do their best. It is up to us to show our mind that acknowledging emotions (and thereby releasing them so we can move on) is the best thing for us.
Tunza |
| Laura |
Posted - 08/20/2005 : 15:55:35
You know, I guess I wasn't even thinking about it but you guys are right (Lee and Sandy). I mean, I NEVER got unconditional love as a child. I was thinking purely in terms of our relationships now, as adults, not about all the junk from childhood. But that's the stuff that's buried pretty deep, and it's the hardest for me to get at and deal with.
Dave, as always you hit the nail right on the head. Thanks for what you said.
Have a great weekend everyone.
Laura
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| ssjs |
Posted - 08/20/2005 : 15:36:42
One of the passages in Dr. sarno's book that helped me the most was a paragraph pertaining to the fact that if a person looks upset and is asked what is wrong...if they say they are unhappy and depressed because of their crummy life, no one wants to hear it...but if they say they have a bad back, suddenly everyone is saying "me too... I did this for it...I did that for it...here let me help you. I know how it feels...etc. etc.)
This is a perfect example of getting some "gain" as it is expressed in Dr. Sarno's book. By Dr. Sarno.
It isn't to say that a person is doing it on purpose. We are not children trying to get a toy out of the deal. We are adults who are hurting and trying to find...somehow...underneath it all...a way to get a little relief.
Coincidently the song Imagine is on my ipod. A live version. I am thinking "imagine there is no pain" Many of us can't.
Since we do not how to go about getting soothed emotionally...it gets expressed physically.
We just need to be soothed!
And the mind finds any way it can to get what it needs. Even if it is not in our bodies best interest.
Sandy |
| leegold |
Posted - 08/20/2005 : 15:23:12
yowire/ laura: thanks
ssjs/laura:
i dont think i ever felt i was ok just because i was me. in fact, i think its the root of all my issues. my mother tells the story that when i was 8, she was going to contact (phone crisis line) training and learned she should hug her kids daily. the next day before i went to school she hugged me, and she said i stood stiff as a board and said 'but mom, i didnt even do anything" this is a kid that obviously DIDNT get the attention he needed and learned that love was CONDITIONAL. i remember sometimes as a child i would awaken and couldnt breathe- both parents would rush me into the bathroom for a steam treatment- i guess i could have learned that sick = love. or it could have been the recurring nightmares i always had that made me wake up freaked-out.i am also a very sensitive, emotional person- i could have taken things personally way more than others w/ a different personality.
plus my mother was sexually molested as a child and didnt deal with it until i was in my 30s, so im sure that her emotional pain affected me as a child.
maryalma8/dave: i have ALWAYS embraced healing thru counseling, therapy, dealing w/ emotional pain, writing, etc. throughout my adult life i have grown and changed for the better thru this and will continue as best i can. sometimes my wife thinks i overthink/overdo the dealing with it part, although she loves the changes.
Lee
"A tranquil heart is life to the body, but passion is rottenness to the bones"- Prov. 14:30 |
| yowire |
Posted - 08/20/2005 : 14:21:51
Hi Leegold and Laura,
It is the easiest thing in the world for someone who is not in pain to say to someone who is in pain that they are doing this for some type of gain. As Dr. Sarno points out, this is totally false.
If you did not want to get better you would have avoided Dr. Sarno and this forum like the plague.
Yowire |
| ssjs |
Posted - 08/20/2005 : 12:48:33
Laura,
just a thought, but you said quote:
And, don't we get love and attention also when we are NOT sick, just for being who we are?
Did you get love an attention from your mom when you were just being you? My take on it, from your posts, was that she didn't give you your due.
Maybe you DID need to grab her attention in some way.
What do you think?
Sandy |
| Dave |
Posted - 08/20/2005 : 12:05:22
quote:
Originally posted by leegold
she wonders if i unconsciously i may not want to get well ...
Possibly but not for the "secondary gain" reason of wanting attention. That implies that the pain is not real, they are just a ploy. But you know the pain is very real.
However, your unconscious mind will escalate the battle for as long as you allow it to. You allow it to by not fully facing up to your emotional issues. Unconsciously you may need the pain because you know that the way out is to feel those emotions you've been burying. And feeling those emotions is just too difficult to bear.
Sure, Dr. Sarno does say that you do not necessarily need to feel the buried emotions to get better, but this is not always the case. And even if it's not necessary, it is healthy! So try your best. |
| Laura |
Posted - 08/20/2005 : 11:57:15
Lee,
I couldn't believe when I read the words your wife says to you, as I have heard the same words from my husband a zillion times! I have even thought to myself about this. I mean, I SAY I would give my right arm not to suffer from dizziness anymore, but then I think to myself "Do I perpetuate this for secondary gain OR so I can keep talking to my friends on the forum." It's ridiculous, but one never knows what our psyche's make us do. I honestly don't think I enjoy having these problems, nor do you, but I can see how our spouses or friends could think it IS for secondary gain. I mean, when I think about it, since I've known my husband I've had ONE PROBLEM AFTER ANOTHER!!!!! When we were first dating, I had something callled esophagitis and nearly died (hospitalized for two weeks). I had ulcers, TMJ, headaches, back pain, one after another just while we were dating. After we were engaged and then eventually married, I started getting all sorts of other fun TMS equivalents. So, I guess I can see how that would lead my husband to believe those things he has said.
My new mantra (since reading the book I'm reading) is "I WANT TO FEEL GOOD." I figure if I say it enough times, it will manifest.
You said that your wife thinks that if you are sick "then I can get love and attention - something she thinks I learned as a child." Doesn't everyone, TMS or not, get love and attention when they are sick? And, don't we get love and attention also when we are NOT sick, just for being who we are? I'm sure your wife shows you love and attention just for being you. Why would you have an ulterior motive to get love and attention from her then?
It's good you are going through intense emotions and that you are weeping. I think that although the TMS pain was "as bad as ever" shows it's trying to fight back. It doesn't want to give up so it's holding on extra tight. Keep doing what you are doing and I'll bet you will start making some progress, however long it takes. You've found Sarno - that's half the battle, right?
Take care and good luck to you, Lee.
Laura
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| marytabby |
Posted - 08/20/2005 : 09:49:48
Only you know for sure if you have a secondary gain with your pain, meaning attention, love. If you REALLY want to get well, you will resolve that possibility and nib it in the bud and start the work that is suggested in the books. If you really truly want to get well, then even if you USED to be an attention seeker, you will find you no longer need that pain and you'll work through getting rid of it.
Again, only you know for sure. Someone I know has fibromyalgia and for her it's a clear case of not having to work, getting all the attention, etc. She rejects Sarno and still keeps going doc to doc for her "disease". Shca can call it a disease all she wants, it's still all TMS. |
| marytabby |
Posted - 08/20/2005 : 09:48:47
Only you know for sure if you have a secondary gain with your pain, meaning attention, love. If you REALLY want to get well, you will resolve that possibility and nib it in the bud and start the work that is suggested in the books. If you really truly want to get well, then even if you USED to be an attention seeker, you will find you no longer need that pain and you'll work through getting rid of it.
Again, only you know for sure. Someone I know has fibromyalgia and for her it's a clear case of not having to work, getting all the attention, etc. She rejects Sarno and still keeps going doc to doc for her "disease". Fine, call it what you want, it's still all TMS. |
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