| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Laura |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 22:13:30
Okay, so lately I'm having a lot of dizzy spells every day, along with horrible headaches, insomnia, jaw pain, low back pain (yes, it's baacck!), mixed in with some stomach distress. I'm reading my Wayne Dyer book and really thinking about things in my life. Today, I actually did a 20 minute meditation. It was pretty amazing. Then, I decide to take my dog on a walk and while I'm walking I start thinking about an incident that happened to me about 25 years ago that makes me very sad to think about, something I have never gotten over and something I haven't shared with many people. I don't know why this came up in my mind, but lately all sorts of weird stuff is popping in my head (childhood issues and such). So I start crying while I'm walking and I'm all set to have a really good cry, and then my cell phone rings and I go and answer it. Of course, I had to compose myself and act like I'm fine and dandy. I never did have that cry. All day I've had an excruciating headache, with several "off balance" lightheaded spells. I can feel myself grinding my teeth and clenching down on my jaw, in turn creating more tension and more dizziness.
So, I'm thinking it might be a good plan to sit down and start digging in deep down and getting to the core of all this stuff. I realize I definitely have a whole bunch of stuff I'm carrying around. Guilt, sadness, anger - these things cannot be doing my body one bit of good, right?
Do you guys think it's okay to sit at my computer and just type away and unload all this stuff, or do I actually need to take a pen in my hand and write it all on paper. I mean, for those of you who journal, is it just the "getting it out" somewhere that counts? I ask this because every time I try to journal my hand gets sore and I stop. I'm a really fast typist (from 10 years of working for a psychiatrist office typing medical reports) and I just want to sit down, get this stuff out of my head, and have myself a good old therapeutic cry. I'll even mix in some pillow punching for good measure if need be. I just WANT TO FEEL GOOD already. I'm so tired of feeling like I've been beaten up.
Any thoughts?
Laura
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Laura |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 22:11:46
Sandy and Anne,
I know you both mean well and I appreciate your input. Sometimes when we are passionate about something it's easy to get riled up. Anyway, the two of you (and all the other caring people on here) have given me a lot of things to think about.
Thank you, again, for your concern and your compassion. Again, I will keep you posted on things. I know one thing for sure. Some huge changes will need to take place in our home because the marriage obviously cannot continue going as it is.
Laura
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| Scottydog |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 21:20:28
Hi,
Just to correct that when I said "as we tmsers know, there is usually more to it." I wasn't inferring that Laura was part of the problem but he may have childhood stresses or something related which is making him behave the way he does.
Anne
Scottydog |
| ssjs |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 20:43:08
Honestly, I can go on and on...but this is Lauras life, and though I too am a know it all...I really know nothing about her life. So I will stop here unless she questions me.
But being the know it all I am, i will say that from what laura has written, she is not being treated right, and even if she contributes to its continuation, he still has NO RIGHT to treat her this way...and his treatment of her is HIS fault...not hers.
I will say no more.
Sandy |
| Scottydog |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 19:58:35
Hi Sandy,
Two points I want to make
1 "when he will not let her talk to her friends and spend a nice evening out" -- how did he not let her talk to her friends and spend a nice evening out - did he drag her out by the hair? did he handcuff her and throw her over s shoulder? Why didn't she say "Sorry dear, I'm not ready to go yet. Come back for us later". But no, he is the one in the wrong.
2 " ..or are you standing up for yourself so they will see they have to change in order to stay in the relationship." In other words you stand up for yourself and force THEM to change in order to stay in the relationship -- when we've just agreed that you can't change another person?
Sorry to sound such a knowall but this stuff is what is in the book I mentioned earlier on the thread that I've just finished reading.
A formerly ok person doesn't turn into a selfish bully for no reason. He is entirely responsible for his inconsiderate behaviour but, as we tmsers know, there is usually more to it.
Anne
Scottydog |
| ssjs |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 19:15:29
Scotty dog,
quote:
Is your husband feeling sidelined with all these women in the household? Is he having problems at work and hates to admit it or is he anxious deep down about lack of promotion or something. If he is worried about work he might envy your "secure" role in running the home. Does he think that you and the girls are busy having fun together whilst he has the drudgery of earning a living for you all and it isn't appreciated? Are the girls disrespectful (most teenagers are) but that isn't how he treated his parents? Anyway just some suggestions.
Hope this doesn't add to your worries and pressures at present.
The things you said to Laura were blaming her and her kids, and outside pressures . Not her husband.
You were suggesting how they should treat him differently to get better treatment. as opposed to them simply not acceptng his behavior. And him getting the help he needs.
Certainly walking on eggshells will add to her worries.
She should not be spending her time soothing him when he will not let her talk to her friends and spend a nice evening out . If he is this insecure, and worried about her having fun during the day with the girls when he is working...when in fact she is dizzy, can't breath, and is in pain...well if he is jealous of that...
Maybe she should be more sympathetic to him...NOT
I am not saying that he doesn't have his own past and problems...but before he hurts someone else, his wife and daughters...he needs to examine himself!
I agree that you must change yourself to change someone else...but there are distictions in the way you change. Are you doing it to make someone feel better so they will be nice? or are you standing up for yourself so they will see they have to change in order to stay in the relationship.
Guess this string struck a cord in me. I'm a little suprised myself by my intense reaction!!!
Sandy |
| Scottydog |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 17:44:04
Hi Sandy,
All the help books I have read say that you cannot change another person only yourself and the way that you behave towards that person which can bring about changes in the relationship. So that was my take on it.
Anne
Scottydog |
| ssjs |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 17:33:32
Laura,
my therapist once told me that the worst abuse is often not physical...because you do not recognize it as abuse, and you let it continue until it wears you down.
Abuse is abuse. If you have to go sit in a room and cry, and have your kids console you, things are not normal. That is certainly as bad as being hit.
Along with your friends noticing (and it wouldn't matter if they didn't...it is still going on) Does anyone go out in the evenings with you guys? like to restaurants, or movies?
And to Scottydog,
There is no excuse for the behavior that lauras husband exibets. Not feeling sidelined, not being around too many women, not envy, and certainly not the disrespect of a bunch of teenagers. the teenagers are the kids...he is an adult. He needs to act like one...
If these things are so painful to him, he needs to go away for awhile and examine himself.
An adult who is in the kind of pain that causes him to treat others badly on a consistant basis, needs more therapy than any of us on this board needs.
This is not normal behavior.
It is more normal to give YOURSELF a bad back than to hurt the ones that you say you love.
Sandy
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| Laura |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 15:55:41
Thank you to everyone for your thoughtful posts. What a wonderful, caring group of people we have on this forum. I really appreciate all the kindness and concern that you all have displayed here.
I guess I've never seen my husband as abusive - I mean, he's never hit me and he isn't violent in any way. It's just the control issue - always feeling like I have to answer to him and like I'm a child. I spoke to my friend today and she asked "What was with your husband the other night? He talked to you like you were five years old." It's not just me. Others see it as well, and the most important of those "others" are my two beautiful daughters. I want my marriage to work, but not at the expense of losing myself and giving them the wrong perception of what an ideal marriage should be. Obviously, we have some work to do. If things do not improve, then I will no longer stay in the marriage. I will keep you posted on the progress.
Thank you again, Sandy, Anne, Electraglideman, and Miehnesor.
Laura
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| Scottydog |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 15:27:23
Hi Laura,
Looking back over the years (and thanks to the many self help books I've been reading to sort out my own problems) I now realise that when my husband was being too "selfish" or demanding or whatever there were underlying emotional problems but his, not mine.
Is your husband feeling sidelined with all these women in the household? Is he having problems at work and hates to admit it or is he anxious deep down about lack of promotion or something. If he is worried about work he might envy your "secure" role in running the home. Does he think that you and the girls are busy having fun together whilst he has the drudgery of earning a living for you all and it isn't appreciated? Are the girls disrespectful (most teenagers are) but that isn't how he treated his parents? Anyway just some suggestions.
Hope this doesn't add to your worries and pressures at present.
Anne
Scottydog |
| electraglideman |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 15:08:36
Laura,
How you handle your husband when he is abusive to you is your own business. Just keep this in mind. You are a role model for your two daughters. When they see how you handled your husbands abusive behavior, it will be imprinted in they're minds for ever. Daughters of abused mothers usually grow up to be abused mothers themselves. Boys who have abusive fathers usually grow up to be abusive fathers.
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| miehnesor |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 12:11:22
Laura,
Is it the present, the past, or the present reminding you of the past that is causing your increased symptoms. My guess is the latter but only you can answer that one.
Regardless- it is absolutely not ok for your husband to behave the way that he does and you have to take charge here and change some boundaries so that he gets it loud and clear. Its not good for you and its not good for your kids. Sorry if this sounds lectury(sp) but it bugs me that he is treating you the way that he does. |
| ssjs |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 11:07:21
I changed some of what I wrote...My feelings have changed a bit, so here is the revised edition.
Laura,
I am sorry if I made you mad or upset about what I said. I know those books are helpful to many, I do not mean to call them goofy. I just hate to see someone being so sad over things that can be changed. I think some of these books are crutches that can hold people back.
True, if you change, your husband will change too. He will have no choice. But he has sooo much changing to do! And of course, i wish you the best of luck. But If you come first, your kids will benifit, especially since they already do not like what they are seeing. It is good for them to see you as powerful and helping yourself. Then they can grow up and do the same. Now they see you being abused. You do not want them to think that that is ok.
It is hard to be quiet about this, but I will say no more if it bothers you. But please be good to yourself. Right now you are not being good to yourself, and your husband is really being very bad to you.
We all do what we need when we are ready, but get ready quickly, before you disappear.
Sandy |
| Laura |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 10:44:08
Sandy,
While I agree with much of what you said, I don't believe that the self-help book I'm reading is "goofy" in any way. I really think that one needs to work on themselves first and foremost and that is what this book is about. I find the daily meditation to be soothing and it is something I look forward to, not because it will help my marriage or change my husband or anyone else for that matter, but because it brings me inner peace. (I'm sure Dr. Sarno would agree that something as relaxing as meditation is a good thing.) The book I am reading (and recommended to folks on the forum) is a very self-empowering book. From the minute I opened it, I immediately felt like I had more of a sense of control over my life and what it holds in store for me (much the same as many of you felt when you read Dr. Sarno's book!) You would think with all that's happened to me in my life I would have a very cynical view about any of these books and whether they can help or not. But I don't.
I think instead of talking about this book and recommending it to everyone I'll just keep that to myself and do "the work." My belief is that you work on changing yourself first, and things around you will change. If the things around me don't change, then I will have no choice but to divorce my husband and be single again. Only time will tell.
Again, thank you for your input.
Laura
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| Scottydog |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 08:15:12
I've just read The Dance of Anger by Harriet Lerner - described in some of the blurb as "a book that will help women accept their anger and give them strength to do something constructive about it". It isn't as heavy going as it sounds but gives some insight on triangle situations in relationships eg husband / wife / child or mother / brother /sister and only cost 59 cents + postage from amazon.
Anne
Scottydog |
| Laura |
Posted - 08/21/2005 : 22:20:59
Thanks, Baseball and Sandy. I will think about some of the things that you both said. It's been a long day and I'm really tired (a long day at the beach will do that to you). You both make some very good points. Again, thank you.
Laura
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| Baseball65 |
Posted - 08/21/2005 : 19:10:29
This string got loaded in a hurry.
About your first question,I don't think it really matters what therapeutic/cathartic type of methods you use As LONG as They WoRk!!
If typing works,that's fine.If it isn't,perhaps it's time to try another way.
..Now on the other parts of the string...
Your Husband's deal about wanting to sit with people from temple...that really bugs.I was raised in a mixed jewish/catholic Family.The Jews didn't think we were Jewish and ostracized us,but at school I was a "f_kin' Ju boy"......My house was swastika'd and star of David'ed up one night by some nice Catholic school boys.
Subsequently I HATE people who 'identify' with their religion.That doesn't mean people who are religious,or people pursuing a spiritual way of life,or even the religions themselves...just people who find their identity through their associations.It's on the same level as name dropping or being a groupie....
"Hey...me and YHWH were out at sky bar the other night and......"
i'm SO opposed to it,that I refused to list my painting biz in the church directory...I don't want people to hire me because we're of the same faith...I want people to hire me because I'm really good at what I do and do an excellent job.If I was a muslim,would that change how well I worked or my integrity??
Anyways..I LOVE when my wife goes and hangs out with other people.It's all over the bible,marriage counseling literature and John Grays book....seperation is what makes the time together so special.My wife goes out with the girls at a 10/1 ratio that I go out with the guys.Actually,I'm generally a loner,and my respite is just sitting in my room playing guitar,writing or watching stuff on eBay.
As far as your 'repressed' stuff.I don't think we really have access to it.I think the stuff you were digging out was that 'pre-conscious' stuff that Sarno sites Freud as distinguishing apart from the unconscious(repressed).I had one the other day....remembering the day my friend was killed when I was 14.....I'd LIKE to forget about it i.e. wipe my memory clear or find some sort of closure,but it still haunts me...maybe I have more writing to do about it.
Not playing on semantics(I respect you waaaaay to much for that) but I'm not sure we ever get down to the absolute rock bottom of our souls...or else none of us would recover.It's just the act of pretending we are that alleviates the symptoms.If posting here is what does it than keep at it.If it's not enough,try some of the other well known alternatives.
Keep on keepin on.
Baseball65 |
| ssjs |
Posted - 08/21/2005 : 15:26:50
Laura,
it is not your past that is bothering you, it is your present...And just like with your mom, you are being ignored. Your needs...what you need emotionally to be happy...are not seen by your husband.
He might love you very much, but he loves the you that he can control.
Sandy |
| ssjs |
Posted - 08/21/2005 : 15:16:28
Laura,
I am still at work. Waiting for my son to pick me up and take me home. But I cannot believe the things you wrote. Being treated this way...the way you describe it...IS abuse. You are a grown woman ( a child should to be treated with more respect) You are not here to be dragged around by your husbands demands.
you answered your own question about why you hurt. it is because you are feeling smothered...suffocated...by your husbands demands. No wonder you are dizzy...or in pain...you arn't getting the oxygen you need. To live.
You cannot even hang around your own friends. I do not want to upset you, but other couples do not behave this way. Other marrages are not like this...or shouldn't be.
You deserve more...and all of those goofy books with affirmations, and self improvement ideas...and meditation...won't do it. Only you can!
Excuse me if I am blunt. it just bothers me to see someone treated this way...and it sure as heck is bothering your kids. And it sure as heck is hurting you.
Sandy |
| Laura |
Posted - 08/21/2005 : 10:03:31
Electraglideman,
Thank you very much for your kind words. It makes me very happy that anything I have written has helped you. You are very sweet.
Peter,
Thank you for your suggestion. I am going to journal every which way I can, I guess, whether it be some days on paper and others typewritten. I'll just have to see what works best, but I have a feeling as long as I'm doing it that's the main thing.
Miehnesor,
Thank you to you also. It is funny you mentioning visualization. I used to see a hypnotherapist who did something very similar with me as you were describing. She called it "Time Line Therapy" and after I would become hypnotized she would take me back to a time in my life where I was a small child experiencing some awful situation. I would visualize in my mind exactly what you describe and it was pretty amazing. Thanks for the terrific suggestion.
Sandy,
Yes, I agree that if my husband felt that strongly about it that maybe his "gut" was right. It all worked out in the end and I was actually glad she stayed home. You do make a good point about not talking about these things in front of the kids, forcing them to choose sides. This happens all the time in our home, mostly because the girls see my husband as a control freak, always having to have things his way. Last night, for example, we took my daughter and her friend to a concert in the park (every Saturday they have them during summer). At the end of the concert, my husband was just standing there talking to one of the other people we sat near about music (their guitars, how great the band was, and on and on...) I decided to go find a friend of ours, who called me on the cell phone and asked where we ended up sitting. She asks us to sit with her every week and my husband never wants to because he'd rather sit with the people from our temple. I always feel bad, so I wanted to go over and find her and talk for a few minutes. I told my husband "I'm going to go find Julie. I'll be back" and off I went, probably a few hundred yards away. Since she was very close to the stage, we walked over to get autographed photos of the band (they were really good, and cute too!) About 10 minutes later, my husband walks up and without saying hi to our other friend says (in an accusatory, curt fashion "Where were you??? I've been waiting for you for like 20 minutes." Now, it was 9:00 at night, not midnight or anything, but he's in this huge hurry to leave. AND, he's a musician himself so you would think he would be thrilled to be standing there talking to this band that he really liked. But, NO, we have to go because the boss says so. AND meanwhile, my poor daughter and her friends are standing there. They had met up with some other kids they knew from school and were having a great time when he announced "We have to go, NOW." It's like this everywhere we go. He demands that he's ready to leave and we all must obey. I just ended up leaving my poster there for the last guy to sign and asked my friend to give it to me later. Then, as we're walking to the car my daughter announces that she has bad blisters from her new shoes and that it's going to be difficult to hike the 1/2 mile to the car. He stops, lets out a huge sigh and drops the cooler on the ground. It's just not fun being anywhere around that man sometimes. I feel like everything must be done on his clock and the way he wants it, and the worst part IS the fact that the girls see it. When we got home, my friend called to say she had my autographed photos. She also told me they had some of the people come back for cocktails at her house and wondered if I'd like to come join them. My daughters were standing there, and said to me "Mom, you should go. Don't let Dad control you all the time." That really bothered me. I really don't want them growing up thinking that Mom is a pushover and lets Dad make every decision that is made. I knew last night that if I said I was going over there by myself (because there is no way he would want to go anyway so I wouldn't ask) he'd make some comment and not want me to go. I truly feel sometimes like I'm being smothered. There are so many things I DON'T do because I know he doesn't want to. And, if I go by myself (which is usually more fun anyway) he makes a big deal out of it and I am always watching my watch thinking I should get home. I feel sometimes like I have gotten lost here in this marriage. I feel like I put my feelings, my wishes, and my wants on hold to make him happy. Sometimes I think we are such opposites I am amazed that we are still married. The thing is, during the day I am the cook, the laundry washer, the housekeeper, the chauffeur, the accountant, the one who buys the groceries and stocks the fridge, etc., etc. I don't lead some crazy life where I'm running around meeting people for lunches or having get togethers. I am alone a lot. So, when there is an event to go to, sometimes I just NEED to get out and have some laughs with friends without feeling like I'm on the clock. I really don't think he gets that.
I do agree that the 16 year old can have more leeway - she's older and she's earned it. Our daughter has a curfew of 10:00 and occasionally it's 11:00, if she is at a friend's house, etc. Our 13 year old wants to do the same kinds of things as her sister does. The thing that my daughter wanted to do yesterday, though, we let her sister do at about the same age. All I'm saying is, I'm an extremely conscientous parent and would NEVER let my children purposely go out and put themselves in harms way. I am proud of the job I do as a mother and I know my husband feels I do a good job as well. It's just, sometimes he acts as if he's the only parent here and his view is the only one of importance. That really pisses me off!
Okay, I have vented and I feel better!
Laura
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| ssjs |
Posted - 08/21/2005 : 07:27:15
Laura,
I think if your husband felt so strongly about your daughter not going, he may have known something you didn't, or had something from his own past make him respond that way. Remember, he has a past too!
In my house if a parent feels strongly about something...we usually go with it. Gut feelings are very important. And you see that your daughter didn't just walk out...or act out.She may have agreed underneth it all. Who knows. Kids want to be protected...even if they deny it.
Believe me , my huband and I have disagreements, but we try to have them in private (it doesn't always work, but we never do a personal attack in front of the kids.) And children shouldn't be the ones to feel that they are here to soothe their parents and make their parents happy in these situations. it is a tremendous burden on them.
I also have a 16 year old girl...and this is a kid who rides the subways, and has friends all over the city...but 16 year olds are old enough to do things on their own (unless you know there is a danger. Letting go is very hard.
On the other hand, my daughter still has to be home by 10:00pm...sometimes 11:00, of course after dark we pick her and I am still calling her friends house to make sure the parents are home, after a certain time, but I do that less and less. There is only so much monitoring I can do as time goes on.
Laura, I have been in and out of therapy for 20 years. Mostly I am out. I'm no Woody Allen. But I have learned so much, and accomplished so much, and seen myself turn around from a pained sad, college drop out individual, to a person with a degree, my own business, and a pretty happy outlook on life. I am a totally different person than I was...and i am pain free.
I have to go to work now...yes I HATE working on Sunday, but you have really got to figure this out! You are a beautiful person, and you deserve everything!
Sandy |
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