| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| cameroid |
Posted - 08/11/2005 : 19:08:54
Hi all,
First post--I've got so many thoughts and questions about TMS that I guess I'll have to relax and just go one at a time. I read The Mindbody Prescription about 6 weeks ago. I'm using it to help with a wide variety of TMS equivalents: Allergies, migraine, neck pain/tension headache, tinnitus, vertigo, and a very tricky bladdar problem. What I've found is that the "lesser" equivalents are responding beautifully. My allergies, in particular, have cleared up completely--stopped taking my medication at the HEIGHT of local allergy season and have had one (minor) attack in six weeks. In some cases, I've been amazed at how, at the first sign of symptoms, I can do some serious thinking, and it's like putting out a little brushfire. I've also noticed improvement on some of the other little conditions.
My two biggest, nastiest symptoms, however, aren't budging--the tinnitus and the bladdar thing. My theory is that those two are the most "successful" distractions and are the most fully embedded in my psychology (as in, I can't imagine not having them). And they are +everyday+ problems, as opposed to intermittent ones. They are also the two symptoms that have had the most attention from doctors (without, of course, anything definitive as a diagnosis).
Does anyone have thoughts about this? Has anyone ever had any luck with tinnitus as TMS? Is there more I should be doing? |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| yowire |
Posted - 08/19/2005 : 18:15:17
Cameroid wrote:
quote:
THAT'S the problem. With a 24-hour-a-day symptom like tinnitus, you can't help checking in on it. You're using Sarno's approach specifically to get rid of this thing, so you kind of wonder, "Is it any better?" And then asking that question ensures that it isn't. I understand the technique, I'm just saying it's really tricky with tinnitus, because it's the attention itself, at the neurological level, that makes it worse.
Hi Cameroid,
Sorry to be argumentative in my last post. From rereading your earlier posts, it seems you are doing overall very well with the technique. I think you just need to give your 2 most difficult symptoms more time to respond. You have only been at it for 6 weeks.
I always get concerned when I see or hear someone appear to search for a reason as to why Dr. Sarno's technique won't work for them or won't work for this symptom or that. I'd hate to see you fall into that trap.
I still believe there is nothing in his technique that should draw your attention to the symptom. We all have an irresistable urge to check our symptoms to see if they are better. This would happen also if you were taking a pill for tinnitus. It is not part of the technique. I agree that no one can think psychologically for 24 hours a day.
I don't think you should be concerned if it gets worse when you check to see if its better. Some symptoms just take a little more time to get to.
Yowire |
| cameroid |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 20:13:14
Dr Sarno instructs us that when we become aware of the symptom we must divert our attention to emotional issues
THAT'S the problem. With a 24-hour-a-day symptom like tinnitus, you can't help checking in on it. You're using Sarno's approach specifically to get rid of this thing, so you kind of wonder, "Is it any better?" And then asking that question ensures that it isn't. I understand the technique, I'm just saying it's really tricky with tinnitus, because it's the attention itself, at the neurological level, that makes it worse. |
| Fox |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 09:58:33
Good point, Yowire....And yes, stress does seem to make the "ringing" more intense for me, too. |
| yowire |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 07:25:03
Cameroid wrote:
quote:
In an odd way, Sarno's technique has been difficult to
implement for tinnitus because it reminds me of the condition and therefore draws my attention to it, making it worse. Tricky.
I would suggest rereading Dr. Sarno's therapeutic program. In my understanding, there is no Sarno technique which should draw your attention to any symptom. In fact, it is just the opposite. If your symptom is TMS than your attention is already focused on the symptom. Your own brain will constantly try to remind you of the symptom. In contrast, Dr Sarno instructs us that when we become aware of the symptom we must divert our attention to emotional issues, especially internal rage that we may not be consciously aware of.
Yowire |
| PeterW |
Posted - 08/16/2005 : 20:46:41
"In an odd way, Sarno's technique has been difficult to implement for tinnitus because it reminds me of the condition and therefore draws my attention to it, making it worse. Tricky"
That's my impression too. Anything that draws attention to it is to be avoided, and for me this has included some therapies. It can start you habitually listening for any changes which is fatal, unless the sounds actually are made to go away. And yes, stress is a huge factor and to be avoided. All easier said than done of course.
For myself, I'm just going to let this sleeping dog lie since at present its bark is literally louder than its bite. If it happens to go away while I work on the back pain/TMS it'll be a pleasant bonus. |
| Laura |
Posted - 08/16/2005 : 19:05:59
Cameroid,
That's exactly what happens with my dizziness and I agree with what you said. I'll be going along and everything is great, and then I think "I haven't been dizzy - that's good" and it happens, just like that. Then, it's like a freaking snowball effect - I think about it (I can't help but think about it) and it gets worse. Trying not to think about it is like telling someone "Don't think about a pink elephant." That's exactly what they're going to be picturing in their mind.
And, yes, just as you have noticed your tinnitus get worse with stress, I also notice my dizziness get worse with stress. I think it's that way pretty much with all these fun equivalents we suffer from. Stress just amplifies everything.
Laura
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| cameroid |
Posted - 08/16/2005 : 18:48:38
Fox--
This is all good stuff. I too have noticed that tinnitus reacts +immediately+ to my attention. All it takes is a reminder to listen for it, and there it is again--even though it didn't seem to be there moments earlier. In an odd way, Sarno's technique has been difficult to implement for tinnitus because it reminds me of the condition and therefore draws my attention to it, making it worse. Tricky.
Did you ever notice your tinnitus reacting to stress. My gets appreciably louder and +uglier+, meaning it changes from a smooth, continuous hissing (like steam through pipes) to a very grainy, popping pulse train.
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| PeterW |
Posted - 08/16/2005 : 18:38:20
I'm sure there are a lot of tinnitus 'sufferers' out there who would be intrigued by your story Fox. Applying TMS theory on top of the TRT model and essentially making it disappear.
In my own case, a breakthrough came when I realized that moderate noises weren't making the ringing and hearing loss any worse, and ditto real loud environments as long as I wore earplugs. So I could hang in a room of acoustic guitars and pianos and not worry about it, or rejoin the drum groups I played with (samba, djembe, which could hit 120dB) with plugs and still have a blast. Therefore resume my life full of music and drums. The fear factor then disappeared. My difference from you is that on an objective level (I went to an audiology office and measured it again) the tinnitus has remained unchanged, it's still there every minute of every day at the same level if I bother to pay attention. I just worry about it a whole lot less now, so I basically applied the TRT model in my own way.
"It is true that TRT speaks of everyone having ear ringing background noise in their heads, but only an overly sensitive few perceiving that noise and overreacting emotionally and cognitively to it in a negative way as if it were a threat...So perhaps TRT theory isn't totally consistent with Sarno, but there are some similarities. Both theories would say that the noises are "real" because they have a physiological element. Both theories also would say there is a psychological component - for Sarno the emotions would lead the brain to create the noise - for TRT the existing noise would be perceived differently due to the personality of the individual"
Now that is interesting - actually I've always disagreed to some extent with that aspect of TRT theory, in that I'm a musician and I absolutely KNOW that I lived virtually in background silence for 35 yrs. And then had pretty quiet hissing in the left ear for another 5 which really didn't bother me at all. Then all hell broke loose sonically and I was a mess, it suddenly became loud enough to hear it speeding on the highway with the windows rolled down. In a very noisy '92 Festiva that needed exhaust and alignment work no less. So it was the level of background noise that really did me in at the time, and I'd take issue with the TRT premise that I was just one of an overly sensitive few who overreavcted cognitively and emotionally. I'd say the years of aural bombardment finally caught up, or the brain did create the noises for some dastardly reason (or both). |
| Fox |
Posted - 08/16/2005 : 13:43:54
One more point....It is true that TRT speaks of everyone having ear ringing background noise in their heads, but only an overly sensitive few perceiving that noise and overreacting emotionally and cognitively to it in a negative way as if it were a threat...So perhaps TRT theory isn't totally consistent with Sarno, but there are some similarities. Both theories would say that the noises are "real" because they have a physiological element. Both theories also would say there is a psychological component - for Sarno the emotions would lead the brain to create the noise - for TRT the existing noise would be perceived differently due to the personality of the individual....What actually helped me was to use TRT theory as an added support to TMS theory to convince myself that I had not truly permenantly damaged my hearing/brought on chronic tinnitus due to attending a 4th of July fireworks display about 4 years ago. In other words, just like with my sciatica, I had to convince myself that there was no structural damage explanation.... Seeing the TRT audiologist gave me the idea to institute a program of behavioral change and to face and to challenge my irrational fear/belief that moderately loud noises somehow physiologically triggered the ringing rather than it being a case of TMS conditioning/self-fulfilling prophesy. As suggested by the audiologist, I stated a program of noise generation. I started playing music every second that I was in the car (except for those quiet moments when I listened to my audio tape of Sarno, of course) and I played the music rather loudly. I played my home theater system loudly. I stopped avoiding noise generating situations - like no longer avoiding streets where a leaf blower was in operation while taking my morning walk. I stopped wearing ear plugs in moderate noise situations. I kept a white noise machine on all night while I slept because the audiologist assured me that the ears pick up the noise even while one is asleep and that helps with the reconditioning process. After about two weeks of these changes in behavior and rigorous disputing of the structural explanation Sarno-style, the ringing became less and less frequent and eventually just stopped for the most part and that was over a year ago.
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| Fox |
Posted - 08/16/2005 : 10:39:07
To clarify my earlier post, what I think is happening is that, when I direct my attention to my left ear nowadays, my brain somehow turns on "real" ringing in my left ear by some physiological process (perhaps by cutting off blood flow) because, based on my symptom history, my brain thinks that it has found a great, believable opportunity to distract me. The same process occurs when I direct my attention to my left leg - with sciatic pain being the result. |
| Fox |
Posted - 08/16/2005 : 07:57:12
It's a fine line as to whether I no longer perceive the sounds even though they exist or I no longer hear the sounds because they no longer exist. The outcome is the same - I no longer hear the sounds. If I stop and try to hear the sounds - like right now - I can hear them. It's like my sciatica - if I stop to think about whether or not I have pain in the left leg then I can feel the pain immediately. Otherwise, I generally do not feel any leg pain nowadays. In my opinion, they are both TMS equivalents - the sounds and the leg pain - both part of the same distraction process. And in both cases, when I allow myself to compulsively check for symptoms or to think structurally, I run into trouble. |
| PeterW |
Posted - 08/15/2005 : 15:20:55
If tinnitus is indeed a TMS equivalent, then I'd hate to think what's lurking about in our unconcious minds. The first few months of tinnitus for me was pure and utter hell and I cant imagine that any hidden emotion could be worth that level of distraction! Seems our unconcious minds are brutal (or perhaps brilliant) in their choices of games. Hitting where it really hurts.
Fox - I take it you have 95% eliminated the tinnitus sounds themselves, as opposed to being much less aware of and bothered by them. My understanding was that TRT achieved the latter, more of a perceptual change, and since I've eventually got there on my own I decided not to bother with TRT. If you have basically eliminated the sounds that really is quite an accomplishment. |
| Laura |
Posted - 08/15/2005 : 14:41:59
Fox,
Interesting stuff. I went on the website. I have hyperaccusis and one of the other ones (it started with an m and I'm too lazy to go back and see what it was called). Whenever we attend any type of event where people are screaming, cheering, clapping, or whistling, it's misery. I am always plugging my ears for fear of damage to my ears and everyone else seems unfazed by any of it. Good to know there is a place people can go to get help. I didn't know about that when I was suffering/focusing on it before. Haven't thought about it in a long time so I guess mine has been under control. Now, if I can make the dizzy thing go away...
Laura
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| Fox |
Posted - 08/15/2005 : 13:31:43
See www.Tinnitus.org - it talks about TRT - which is very compatible with Sarno's theories. See a TRT trained audiologist if necessary. I used the aforementioned web site, Sarno's books, plus one visit to a TRT audiologist (in Greensboro, NC) to completely (well, 95% better) cure myself of ringing of the left ear -- which I had endured for about 3 years.
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| cameroid |
Posted - 08/15/2005 : 12:09:39
Wow. That bladder problem does sound like it would be difficult to deal with. I never heard of it before. It seems like our brains pick the strangest, most off the wall physical reactions in our bodies.
It affects 7% of the population, mostly men. The reason you haven't heard of it is because it is built into the condition that sufferers do not talk about it--it behaves like a phobia, and it is deeply embarrassing like a phobia. If you have ever been in an extremely crowded restroom and felt a moment of hesitancy before starting to urinate, you have a clue what the condition is. Multiply that moment of hesitancy by 1000--to the point of complete lock-up--and imagine it happening all the time. That's Avoidant Paruresis, and several million of your fellow Americans are living with this nightmare everyday. But none of them would dare mention it...
Funny that it started when I had commenced some serious inner work, and at the time it forced me to give up on silent meditation as I could never get beyond being driven bats by the dang ringing.
This should tell you everything you need to know about the true nature of tinnitus. It is TMS. It is possible to have hearing loss without tinnitus; it is possible to have tinnitus without hearing loss. Hearing loss isn't the issue, it's the excuse. |
| PeterW |
Posted - 08/13/2005 : 14:34:22
Cameroid - Thanks for those posts, I too can relate as a musician (well, a hand drummer actually, if that counts) with tinnitus. Several frequencies started up out of the blue 4 years ago when I had just started practicing meditation. All the docs & audiologists said 'Well you just first noticed it that quiet environment' which I know is BS. I'm extremely auditory and have always noticed even the slightest sound in my surroundings, and would have noticed it if it was there before.
I had actually never thought of it as a TMS equivalent as it is just there all the time, stressed or not, and hasn't budged a peep in 4 yrs. And also because I have some documented hearing loss at the same frequencies, compliments of too many loud nights around drums and bands plus a couple summers around drilling rigs. But it sure acted as one serious distraction for a long time, so it is quite conceivable that it's also a mind trick. Funny that it started when I had commenced some serious inner work, and at the time it forced me to give up on silent meditation as I could never get beyond being driven bats by the dang ringing.
Interestingly, as I've gotten better acclimatized to it and returned to playing wearing earplugs, my old nemesis the lower back has gone into the tank again (twice), the latest episode now 5 months and counting. So like your bladder I also have a more serious lifestyle ruler, which brings me to currently exploring more psychological healing approaches.
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| Laura |
Posted - 08/13/2005 : 10:41:32
Cameroid,
Wow. That bladder problem does sound like it would be difficult to deal with. I never heard of it before. It seems like our brains pick the strangest, most off the wall physical reactions in our bodies. If someone told me years ago that every time I got an anxious thought I'd feel dizzy I would have thought they were crazy. It is so interesting how the brain works and how it distracts us!
I hope everything goes well for you in your move to Chicago. Best of luck!
Laura
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| cameroid |
Posted - 08/13/2005 : 10:00:00
I forgot to mention something. When I was focusing on the tinnitus a few years ago and it ruled my life, I went and saw a doctor. He is a dentist actually, and he wanted to perform this surgery on me. He believes that I have TMJ (and I do - it is a TMS equivalent) and that if he could go in inside the tempormandibular joint and replace the hinge or whatever with this titanium one that all my troubles would be gone. (I know clenching down on your teeth and jaw can supposedly contribute to this). This dentist was in Anaheim and I'm up in Santa Clarita, so it was quite a drive for me (I say this because I saw you live in San Diego so I know you are familiar with where I'm talking about). I ran out of that guy's office so fast and never returned. I was going through a real depression at that time, and focused on nothing but the tinnitus. Like I said, it completely ruled my life. With the dizziness ruling my life I really haven't noticed or thought of the tinnitus in a very long time. But when IT was my main focus, I could think of nothing else. It seems it's been that way for me for a very long time - getting fixated, focused, and consumed with a symptom and letting it "rule" and run my life.
Actually, I have a jaw thing myself. It appeared several months after my tinniuts and coincided with my arrival in San Diego. It was/is only a very minor cracking sound (not the earth-shattering POP! of TMJ), but I quite naturally assumed it was connected to my tinniuts/vertigo and fixated on it. An oral surgeon looked at it and said it was not TMJ, but probably just muscle tension from jaw-clenching. I still thought there must be a connection, so I had my wisdom teeth out (needed to be done anyway). Nearly 10 years later, my jaw still pops a bit (if I'm stressed, natch), my ears ring, and enough anxiety will make the room spin...
From all I've read about tinnitus (which appears to be your most annoying problem if I'm not mistaken)it can "burn out" and disappear. (Personally, I don't know that it actually burns out - I think we just stop fixating on it and it magically seems to disappear).
I wish it would burn out!!! And, no, by the way, I'd place my bladder problem serveral orders of magnitude beyond tinnitus. Tinnitus is annoying, even upsetting--but it isn't physically damaging or painful, it doesn't keep me housebound or dictate whether I can have guests, it doesn't make me question my self-worth. I've had tinnitus 10 years, as opposed to 27 years. Avoidant paruresis is my personal fibromyalgia, ostero-arthritis, RSD, whatever--it's my cruel master. Just imagine what your life would be like if you couldn't urinate reliably outside your own home...or with anyone in your home.
I also remember, when I was going through the tinnitus, that stress reduction was mentioned in all the literature that I read. I would say meditation, relaxation, yoga or a combination may help you. Also, do you have a "white noise" type of machine in your home?
I run a fan for white noise. It seems clear in most tinnitus literature that it is stress-related (mine gets louder and uglier with stress). It is also frequently mentioned that its onset is often at a time of intense stress--mine certainly was.
Have your problems worsened with the decision to move to Chicago? Life altering events like that have a way of doing that to a person. Are you happy about moving to Chicago? Have you lived in San Diego your whole life? When I moved to California from Michigan 21 years ago it was a real difficult time for me. I began having panic attacks shortly after I moved here. Just curious.
Thanks for asking. Actually, I see my new job in Chicago as an immediate outcome of my efforts to use Sarno's treatment. I don't think I could have gotten through the anxiety of the interview without my newfound awareness that my anxiety is just a distraction. Things seem very clear to me right now, and I am being very careful to confront the stress of my uncoming move, not letting it squirrel itself away as a bunch of new physical symptoms. I will say, though, that when I moved from NC to San Diego, I was reduced to a quivering ball of allergy, migraine, clicking jaw, tinnitus, vertigo, anxiety, etc. etc. etc. I'm going to try not to let that happen this time.
I know I've given you a lot to think about and to answer. I know how annoying the tinnitus can be. Do you subject your ears to extremely loud music? My husband is a musician and he seems to have no problems with this so I've never quite figured that one out.
I'm a classical musician, actually, a composer. I haven't been to very many rock concerts or spent too many hours at construction sites or standing in front of stacks of amplifiers. I do have some hearing loss in the affected ear, but the mechanism of tinnitus is such that it seizes on hearing loss to create the tinnitus. The tinnitus itself is more like a phantom limb, the brain attempting to hear high frequency information that isn't really there and picking up electrical activity in the auditory nerve instead. It is, in other words, NOT a necessary side effect of minor hearing loss. That annoying sound is something the brain is CHOOSING to listen to. And the way the auditory system is set up is such that if you focus on your tinnitus and have instense emotional reactions to it, it WILL get louder. It MUST get louder, because the brain interprets it as a danger signal and amplifies it. It does the same thing to your tinnitus that it would do to the sound of an approaching predator--it is attempting to protect you by drawing your attention to a danger signal. It reacts, in other words, directly to emotional factors. Of course it's TMS!
I cannot tell you how many things I read about tinnitus back a few years ago. I remember reading in Dr. Weil's book, Spontaneous Healing, about how his German colleague treated patients with tinnitus by prescribing yoga and relaxation because he believes that tinnitus results from "chronic muscle tension in the head and neck often associated with poor posture and stress." It's TMS!!
Agreed! I like Andrew Weil a lot. He seems to understand, in a sense, that tinnitus and many other conditions are stress-related. I think there's a part of me that still wants to believe that tinnitus is a structural problem. I had one doctor tell me it was caused by fluid retention. He gave me a diuretic and said to cut back on salt. PLEASE! That didn't do ANYTHING. And I speculate that that diruetic was actually a sugar pill. Doctors seems to know that tinnitus is an emotional issue, so they pronounce it TINN-it-tus instead of tinn-Y-tus, and they give you sugar pills, or they want to put you on an SSRI, etc. They're so screwy--they know it's psychogenic, but they still approach it in this structural, chemical, quasi-engineering way.
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| Laura |
Posted - 08/12/2005 : 12:29:51
Cameroid,
I forgot to mention something. When I was focusing on the tinnitus a few years ago and it ruled my life, I went and saw a doctor. He is a dentist actually, and he wanted to perform this surgery on me. He believes that I have TMJ (and I do - it is a TMS equivalent) and that if he could go in inside the tempormandibular joint and replace the hinge or whatever with this titanium one that all my troubles would be gone. (I know clenching down on your teeth and jaw can supposedly contribute to this). This dentist was in Anaheim and I'm up in Santa Clarita, so it was quite a drive for me (I say this because I saw you live in San Diego so I know you are familiar with where I'm talking about). I ran out of that guy's office so fast and never returned. I was going through a real depression at that time, and focused on nothing but the tinnitus. Like I said, it completely ruled my life. With the dizziness ruling my life I really haven't noticed or thought of the tinnitus in a very long time. But when IT was my main focus, I could think of nothing else. It seems it's been that way for me for a very long time - getting fixated, focused, and consumed with a symptom and letting it "rule" and run my life.
From all I've read about tinnitus (which appears to be your most annoying problem if I'm not mistaken)it can "burn out" and disappear. (Personally, I don't know that it actually burns out - I think we just stop fixating on it and it magically seems to disappear). Have you read Louise Hay's book Heal Your Life? Under tinnitus she says "Refusal to listen. Not hearing the inner voice. Stubbornness." This thought pattern should be replaced with "I trust my Higher Self. I listen with love to my inner voice. I release all that is unlike the action of love."
I also remember, when I was going through the tinnitus, that stress reduction was mentioned in all the literature that I read. I would say meditation, relaxation, yoga or a combination may help you. Also, do you have a "white noise" type of machine in your home?
Have your problems worsened with the decision to move to Chicago? Life altering events like that have a way of doing that to a person. Are you happy about moving to Chicago? Have you lived in San Diego your whole life? When I moved to California from Michigan 21 years ago it was a real difficult time for me. I began having panic attacks shortly after I moved here. Just curious.
I know I've given you a lot to think about and to answer. I know how annoying the tinnitus can be. Do you subject your ears to extremely loud music? My husband is a musician and he seems to have no problems with this so I've never quite figured that one out.
I cannot tell you how many things I read about tinnitus back a few years ago. I remember reading in Dr. Weil's book, Spontaneous Healing, about how his German colleague treated patients with tinnitus by prescribing yoga and relaxation because he believes that tinnitus results from "chronic muscle tension in the head and neck often associated with poor posture and stress." It's TMS!!
Laura
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| cameroid |
Posted - 08/12/2005 : 11:13:55
Thanks for the thoughtful responses.
Laura--I am VERY familiar with the anxiety-related vertigo you describe. My vertigo and tinnitus had a simultaneous onset at a moment of +extreme+ anxiety. It happened literally in a heartbeat--a loud popping sound, the room starts spinning, my ears start ringing, and I haven't been the same since (10 years on). Yes, at moments of extreme tension I still get vertigo, though not like that first episode. It was the classic TMS scenario: There had been a precipitating "event" a couple months earlier; I saw multiple doctors over the course of years (with many fancy tests!), each of whom had a different theory or a different treatment, none of which helped at all. And most importantly, the symptoms first appeared at a time of maximum stress and have always reacted to stress. And did I mention I'm a musician? Tinnitus is a mighty powerful distraction for a musician. On the basis of the stress-symptom relationship, I have no problem accepting a psychogenic origin. But I do have a problem conceiving of a life free of hissing and ringing in my ears!
My bladder thing is called Avoidant Paruresis. I and several other sufferers have written to Sarno and Sopher about it, and they have confirmed it is TMS. Heck, the condition's alternate name is Psychogenic Urinary Retention, so I guess if the word psychogenic is in the name... Nevertheless, I've had many tests, been given medication, been told (by a psychologist, no less!) that there +might+ be an underlying physical problem, etc. The disorder consists of a chronic stress-related inability to initiate a urine stream. This condition pretty much rules people's lives--you must ask it for permission to leave your house, and it may say no.
Anne--Thanks for the info on patchy recovery. I have seen others suggest that Sarno should, in his next book, point this out a little more clearly. He tends to emphasize the instant recovery, which is understandable, but I'm finding that his treatment plan is actually hard, messy work, and I've had to remind myself to keep at it. The remarkable allergy recovery, though, is more than enough to keep me going. I speculate that allergies and migraines are very "flimsy" forms of TMS--I've been onto their tricks for years, but it wasn't till Sarno that the connection became explicit.
Thanks again, and cheers!
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