| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| vikki |
Posted - 07/30/2005 : 12:59:16
Hi folks,
In the past 6 weeks, I've gradually come to accept the TMS diagnosis. I've seen Dr. Schechter and started psychotherapy with Don Dubin. I've stopped all physical treatments -- stretching, special exercises, etc. I totally that my pain has an emotional cause; those physical treatments will not help me. I have been reading and re-reading Sarno's books, as well as other stuff on the mind-body connection.
At my last appointment with Dr. Schechter, he said he thought my TMS is not based on repressed emotions (as Sarno describes), but is "personality-driven" -- i.e., it's an expression of my perfectionism and tendency to worry. Okay, I accept that I'm perfectionistic and worry WAY too much. I also think I worried myself into this pain -- it started right around the time that I was worrying about injuring myself running, and it got worse and spread to other areas as I worried more about it. But if the purpose of the pain is not to distract me from repressed emotions, then what is its purpose? Has anyone else been told they have personality driven TMS? Dr. Schechter said the key to getting rid of personality-driven TMS was to start noticing the connections between my life stress and the pain. I have really tried to do this, but honestly, there doesn't seem to be a connection. I have constant pain -- it does vary in intensity, but it doesn't seem to be related to other things going on in my life (family issues, or whatever).
Also, are there any practical tips on how to stop being so focused on the pain? I know it's TMS, but I keep coming back to the thought, "Oh no, I still have pain. I won't be able to fly to my friend's wedding next month, and I'll let her down." It is particularly bad now because I have this ugly neck and shoulder pain and have actually had to stay in bed for most of the day. It makes me feel desperate and helpless having to depend on others to do things for me. I've made a list of things/issues in my life other than the pain that are bugging me and I try to focus on them instead -- but this seems to make me feel even more depressed and worried. Is there anything else I can shift my focus to?
Any advice would be much appreciated. It is obvious to me that there is nothing physically wrong with me -- now my brain needs to let go and give this up. Thank you. |
| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| atg |
Posted - 02/01/2006 : 21:21:18
Fly by Night,
My first breakthrough came in a similar situation as the one you are approaching. I drove 5 hours from Los Angeles to San Francisco despite previous excessive pain I had whenever sitting. The pain on the way up was excruciating, but on the way down, it was a different story.
Keep talking to your brain. It may not happen right away. Us TMS types are quite perfectionistic and tend to create a lot of "tests." If your pain is constant on your way there, it doesn't mean it won't work for you eventually. Make sure not to put TOO much pressure on yourself to pass this first self-imposed test.
Best of luck to you.
Alan |
| FlyByNight |
Posted - 02/01/2006 : 20:05:41
Stryder ...
hehe nice joke !
I am scared like hell to go in 2 days because of the debilitating neck and head pain .. (Moreover my physician told me this morning not to go because he believes, after palpating my neck, that the pain is the result of C1-C2 neck nerve damage that could worsen). I am choosing not to believe him and stick to the TMS diagnostic. I also that I am the Boss .... And my brain needs to know it ...
thanx for your support ... I will email back I promise |
| Stryder |
Posted - 02/01/2006 : 19:56:12
quote:
Originally posted by FlyByNight
... I decided today to do the major leap of faith and surrented to my understanding of TMS and to finally go to Japan in a couple of days. . I am pretty sure the pain wont be that worse because I will fight TMS on MY own field !...
Hi FlyByNight,
Major leap. Good choice. You have taken control of your own recovery by not allowing TMS to run/ruin your life.
BTW, are you flying-by-night to Japan ;-) Just kidding.
But seriously, enjoy your trip and post back here when you return.
Take care, -Stryder |
| FlyByNight |
Posted - 02/01/2006 : 19:37:45
Vikki
While I totally agree with was said by others in your post. I would like to emphasize another aspect of your message.
First of all, I do have the same kind of TMS as you do . Its neck focused and the pain is crazy ....
I was supposed to have a trip to Japan in a couple of days. This trip was planned since a year and a couple of weeks ago I decided to not go even if the air ticket was bought already. ADter thinking about TMS and surrender and acceptance ... I decided today to do the major leap of faith and surrented to my understanding of TMS and to finally go to Japan in a couple of days. .I am pretty sure the pain wont be that worse because I will fight TMS on MY own field !.
I would consider going to your friends place , even if your fear is great and your brain telling to not to go...
regards
Pat
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| n/a |
Posted - 02/01/2006 : 15:38:20
Read again the pyschology sections of Dr. Sarno's books. These personality traits create an imposition on the self which in turn generates internal rage and anxiety. This is wherre the TMS symptoms kick it. |
| edward |
Posted - 02/01/2006 : 15:13:16
i have low back pain and neck pain for5 years went to alot of doctors can not fonh nothing wrong. now i read dr. sarno books and video also reading rapid recovery from back and neck pain by Fred amir also i talk to my brain and keep reminding myself that its tms not some thing wrong with my body edward |
| Laura |
Posted - 08/02/2005 : 11:45:04
Vikki,
It seems that the more you dwell on the pain (or in my case the dizziness, the IBS, the headaches, etc.) then the more you get of it as Fred talks about. When I was really busy planning my daughter's bat mitzvah, I didn't have much time to be thinking about dizziness and I didn't get it much. In fact, the day of the event I never got dizzy ONCE but I was a nervous wreck about the speech, how my daughter would do, and how the party would go. Once it was over, I was very sad and became all the more preoccupied with the dizziness. Last week I was suffering headaches, with my usual TMJ type symptoms (stiff neck, sore jaw, ear making clicking noises). The more I focused on it, the worse it got. Then, we went away on vacation and I stopped thinking about the headaches and voila - they were gone. I did start focusing on the dizziness more because my husband kept talking about how he needs to get me on an airplane again and I kept telling him I have no desire. The pressure of that was all it took to set me off. I experienced a LOT of dizziness on vacation. At one point, when we got off the elevator to check out, I felt this dropping sensation inside my head, as if my brain was falling and my head was staying still. It was the strangest, most awful sensation. It's all part of the dizziness scenario for me. I got more and more of the very thing I was focused on.
I hope you get things straightened out with Dr. Dubin and Dr. Schechter so you understand one another and are on the same page. I can understand your confusion. I do believe, like Dave says, that TMS is all "personality driven," thus the goodist, TMS personality we all share. I am a perfectionist and I definitely do notice the correlation between my TMS symptoms and the level of stress going on in my life. I am really stressed out right now about a lot of things. Going on vacation was fun, but being in a small hotel room with three people (two teenagers arguing, a spouse that can be a pain in the neck sometimes, etc.) is enough to trigger stress in anyone.
Good luck! I hope you see some improvement.
Laura
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| Baseball65 |
Posted - 08/02/2005 : 11:43:26
quote:
Also, are there any practical tips on how to stop being so focused on the pain?
Well ,in the part of HBP where he gives the 12 daily reminders(an important strategy) Sarno says he would recommend that when one finds oneself focused on the pain,to immediately think of some problem or worry/concern/anger that one has in their life,to retrain the body that we No longer need it's 'defense' from our emotions.
We live in a JOKE hypocritical society.We preach "tolerance" and abhor "anger" because LOGIC has made it obsolete....it is HUMAN to have anger and to hate.The longer the 'politically correct' mindpolice have access to the media,the more we are punished for hating ANYTHING....by ourselves!!
So...I recommend a good 'ol fashion SCAPEGOAT.
From what I read on this forum,I had one of the more rapid recoveries...about a month from cripple to recovered.I had the great good fortune of being ripped of in a Music deal while I was reading the book(HBP).
Everytime the pain came,I immediately turned my Focus to David K.,the slick talking scumbag producer who had ripped me off.I had wild fantasies about crushing his skull with a Baseball bat.I went on wild epithet and swear laced tirades upon his existence,his persistence and his progeny.
In fact,I was a bit concerned that I might physically attack him,as he had become my TMS scapegoat.However,goodism came to the rescue...when I saw him I merely treated him with a thinly veiled indifference.
Anyway....I find in most TMS people that they have a conditioned aversion to HATE...I don't mean 'annoyed' or 'irked' or 'dislike' ...I mean good ol' fashioned no discussion/no debate get out of my face I HATE YOU!!!
Journalings good to illuminate,but the ritual cannot be ignored.
Baseball65 |
| johnnyg |
Posted - 08/02/2005 : 10:16:37
I agree with Fredarm on this one. I think this second "strain" of TMS may be the result of chronic pain causing so much anxiety that one's fight or flight response to stress gets "permanently" turned on. When this happens, the anxiety and fatigue tends to keep the pain alive; it is debilitating and extremely difficult to reverse. This is the point I think where many mindbody practitioners say that in order to reverse the process you must elicit the relaxation response--some some work with the body is required--a la Fred amir, "Back Sense" and the "The Relaxation Response"--you have to teach your body how to relax. |
| Dave |
Posted - 08/01/2005 : 08:10:59
quote:
Originally posted by vikki
This also seems at odds with Sarno's treatment -- that one SHOULD strive to understand the pain as TMS and take control of it with one's conscious mind.
I am not sure where you get this from. Is this your own interpretation?
Dr. Sarno's method is not about "taking control." It is an unconscious process and there is no way to control it consciously.
It's about learning about the process, accepting that it is happening, and refusing to allow it to control you. |
| Fredarm57 |
Posted - 08/01/2005 : 07:42:40
It sounds like Don Dubin's approach is similar to Dr. Ron Seigel's in his book "Back Sense". I was a patient of Dr. Siegel's and was only able to get rid of the pain when I stopped trying to get rid of it. It sounds counterintuative, but the trying to get rid of the pain and worrying about whether I would be able to do some task or event in the future if I had pain, actually made me more tense and contributed to the pain. I had some of both kinds of TMS, the distraction from repressed emotions and the type you describe as "personality driven". I had to do some digging into the past, but also learn to see the connections between the pain and life events in the present. Dr. Siegel calls the pain a "benign barometer of anxiety". You learn to see it as a signal that something is bothering you. Using mindfulness techniques to be more in the present helps you to stop worrying about when the pain will go away and helps to reduce your anxiety.
Fred |
| vikki |
Posted - 07/31/2005 : 10:36:12
Thanks for all the replies.
Kat,
Yes, I've read it. It was an incredibly inspiring story. Did you try his techniques yourself? I've been using visualization -- visualizing myself doing things without pain. I've hesitated to set up a goal/reward program, though, because I'm afraid I'd beat up on myself for failing to achieve a goal. (My perfectionism and low self esteem ...) Did you successfully implement this?
Leegold,
Yeah, I understand what you mean about love being conditional. I deeply believe this too, and it's infuriating. Probably goes back to my childhood as well ...
Dave and Maryalma,
That was my understanding too after reading Sarno -- that there are personality traits that give rise to repressed emotions. But I mentioned to Dr. Schechter that I'd spent an entire month trying to figure out what I might be repressing, and that I could only come up with anger/anxiety that I was already aware of. That's when he said that TMS is not always a distraction from repressed emotions -- that sometimes the symptoms are an expression of one's perfectionism and worry (he said he called this "personality-driven TMS," and that it was a somewhat different model from what Sarno described). The psychotherapist he referred me to, Don Dubin, seems to agree -- he thinks the purpose of the pain, in my case, is to provide me with a goal (getting rid of the pain) since I'm very goal oriented. He said the pain will go when I accept that I will never understand or get rid of it (i.e., when I cease to make it my goal to understand and get rid of it). This also seems at odds with Sarno's treatment -- that one SHOULD strive to understand the pain as TMS and take control of it with one's conscious mind. So, I am a bit confused as to what I should be doing. And I'm not sure how to accept that I will never get rid of the pain, when the whole reason I'm seeing the psychotherapist is to get rid of the pain. I will discuss this with him further tomorrow. |
| Dave |
Posted - 07/31/2005 : 08:48:39
Perhaps Dr. Schecter's diagnosis has confused you. This is not a different flavor of TMS. In general, TMS is always "personality-driven." Your personality is such that you put great internal pressure on yourself, and the child inside you is in a blind rage because the child does not want to bear any of this self-imposed pressure. The purpose of the pain is to distract you from the rage. |
| marytabby |
Posted - 07/31/2005 : 08:17:23
Personality traits like perfection, worrier, low self esteem, etc drive TMS at the core. So yes, that is what I understand about it. Whether or not you have repressed emotions, you probably fit the typical profile of the TMS'r. |
| leegold |
Posted - 07/30/2005 : 19:27:05
i know MY perfectionism is a direct reflection of low self-esteem. (dr sarno adds this, along with sadness and other emotions, to his previous 'repressed rage' diagnosis). i learned early on that love was conditional, and that is why i strifve for perfection. if only my dad's best compliment wasnt 'not bad'. you cant tell me that THAT wouldnt cause RAGE: being a fantastic, god-created wonder who STILL has to stive past all realistic expectations just to be loved and accepted! im not your doc, but perfectionistic personalities are INDEED personality traits driven by repressed emotions!
also, anything you fopcus on will become LARGER while what you dont focus on becomes smaller. focus on your attitude and your actions- the ONLY 2 things you can control!
all the best |
| Tunza |
Posted - 07/30/2005 : 18:28:05
Hi Vikki,
Have you read Fred Amir's book? He used rewards to train his body/mind to stop the cycle of pain.
Kat |
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