| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Suz |
Posted - 07/05/2005 : 09:18:09
Man - this is tough. My TMS pain has returned with a vengeance over the last week. It has shifted to night time - center middle of the back, it spasms all night long so I wake up every hour.
I was doing so well and then a couple of very stressful events happened - mother coming, preparing for marriage in November - discussing everything with my fiance and a priest - which is actually very helpful.
I am pretty scared about getting married again and I think that is where all this is coming from.
But I have been dealing with this TMS work for a year now and I don't get why my brain won't stop using my body. I am seeing one of Sarno's psychologist once a week (I stopped and the pain came back big time).
Should I be reading the book as well? I started reading "healing back pain" this week. I had the sciatic pain for 12 years so it seems my brain is not eager to let go. This is such hard work and sometimes I feel weak and don't want to deal with it all
Any support and suggestions would be so great as I am a little disheartened right now. I know it is dangerous to fall into victim mode and I must laugh at this TMS monster - but sometimes I don't feel strong enough |
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| Baseball65 |
Posted - 07/08/2005 : 15:06:56
Hi Suz.
I have two sons aged 12 and 7.They are as different from each other as apples and lima beans.My older one is gregarious, and a 'people' person,always at the center of a crowd,but a bit absent minded and a little too 'carefree' while the younger one is meticulous,focused and waaaaay too smart for his age,tending to keep to himself and able to work on stuff for long uninterrupted periods.
The best part though is that they absolutley LOVE each other and get along really well.My older one is sooo patient with the little one.He always plays with him,supports him....nothing like me and my brother.
The one thing that doing all this work will enable you to do as a parent is Prevent it from happening to your own kids.The older one is a star Baseball player,but will confide to me before games when he is wound up emotionally,and even has come to me and said stuff like "Dad,my leg is killing me,but I think it's TMS....it started bugging right after I found out I had to start tonight"
Your own children will have a huge advantage.
peace
Baseball65 |
| Suz |
Posted - 07/08/2005 : 13:59:11
Thank you Baseball and Stryder - such lovely support. I am so excited to have this wonderful man to share my life with and I seem to realize that more and more each day! All of this is becoming apparent as I see a psychologist each week and I work on all this psychological stuff through the TMS work. My fiance thinks the psychoogist has helped me so much that he joked and asked if she could move in with us too!
Both of us would like me to be at home with the children - at least that is our goal. We are going to take some time first to spend time with each other and build up more savigs and not have kids immediately. I think we may have about 6 months to a year max and then we really have to start trying as I am already 35. I actually took the day off today and went to see an old boss of mine in Real Estate to discuss getting my license and potentially working in that industry - it gives one flexibility to work the schedule around children. Although it is a cutthroat industry and sounds very stressful. I may just get the license and work on referral - still do my regular job for at least a year.
Baseball - you are very much in my thoughts and prayers and I am so sorry that you are going through such a tough time. I love that you are such an involved father. I hope my husband will be the same. That rock and roll existence can be very shallow - and ego driven - so much materialsm that does not ultimately bring people peace. How old are your kids? |
| Stryder |
Posted - 07/07/2005 : 17:39:00
Hi Suz,
Sounds like your fiance is a great find. Its good that he had stuck by you though all this.
One of the things you mentioned in one of your previous posts was your strong desire to raise your family by you being home with your kids. That is a great goal and and it sounds very important to you. You and your husband [to be] will need to do some financial planning and maybe put some money aside BEFORE you have kids, so you will be able to make the adjustment to a single income, if thats the route you decide to go.
The original plan when my wife and I had kids was that she planned all along to go back to work after about 6 months. At 6 months we mutally agreed that she would take another 6 months off work. Now that was 12 years ago, and we still are a one income household. The point is that we planned for both options a couple years before the first baby was born in the event that our original timetable got changed (which it did). We both are very happy how things turned out, but we have had to be even more careful how to spend our money. Like yourself, we live in a good neighborhood but don't buy into trying to keep up with the Jones'. A very equitable trade.
I personally applaud you that you want to raise your kids. Great idea.
Take care, -Stryder |
| Baseball65 |
Posted - 07/07/2005 : 13:50:24
Hi Suz.
It sounds to me like you guys are a perfect match! (with each other...maybe not with Greenwich)
Just as your forum buddy,I'd really suggest focusing your TMS work on your relationship with your Mom...that sounds to me like the crux of your woes,though there might be something to being unconsciouslyangry at your fiance' for not being wealthy,just as us parents have a hard time acknowledging that we might be unconsciously angry about the responsibilities of parenthood.We love them,and couldn't imagine being resentful...The 6 year old in all of us is really selfish!
The reason I think you should investigate this now is of course the "don't do what I did" kind of advice.Right now,my wife and I's problems can probably be traced to her assumptions about success before we were married.
At the time she married me,I was a "prospect" being courted by the Recording Industry and rubbing elbows with the Hollywood 'elite'.She was always with me at parties and functions where world famous celebrities were toodling about,and I think she mistakenly assumed that she would be Mrs.Rock star's wife....
Well,taking a social nose-dive would seem OK if it's going to pay off in the long run,right?? Now that I'm just any other guy who works and comes home to play ball with his kids,the price she's paying in social stigma is probably more than she can psychologically afford.
Most people want to be generous after they're rich,to be self satisfied after they've achieved,to be gracious after they've won.When it gets too 'real' they generally check out.Don't end up like us....I'll be surprised if we stay married much longer.Her 'investment' didn't pay off...gotta' cut those losses.
Just being a little cynical.Make sure you Love him(which I'm sure you do) and than it will be easier to take those vows...that 'for richer or poorer' one is tough!!
peace
Baseball65 |
| Suz |
Posted - 07/07/2005 : 11:25:18
Baseball,
Thank you for your comments. I think my fiance is great too! I share the same view about money and status. I grew up with this too and my family went through a brutal divorce. All the money in the world didn't buy my family happiness. My mother married my stepfather when he was very successful and then he lost all their life savings on the stock market. I hope that my fiance will be very active in bringing up our children (hopefully we will have a child) I would rather that he earned less money and could pick the kids up from school etc. Money and status do not bring any happiness. I work at a hedge fund for a very wealthy guy - his family has millions and they are the most stressed, miserable people I have ever come across. I am surrounded by Ivy League graduates who are so wrapped up in money that they have forgotten what really matters in life. I live in a ridiculous town - Greenwich, CT where status is all that matters. If you don't drive a brand new mercedes, you are a failure. My fiance and I simply will not buy into it and insist on driving second hand cars out of principle!
|
| Dave |
Posted - 07/07/2005 : 10:24:24
quote:
Originally posted by Suz
...I have no idea why I so desperately want my mother's approval...
Try to find the answer. It's likely the root of your TMS. |
| Baseball65 |
Posted - 07/07/2005 : 09:24:26
Hmmm...
It seems the problem is with your Mom,not with your Fiance'.
That would seem to fill in the gaps a lot better
I have been going through the mill with my own wife lately,and periodically I remind her(in moments of anger) that she should have stayed married to what you and her might call the 'Mr. 6 foot tall and super fit' a.k.a. her first husband....professional,works out every day in the gym,won't let anyone park in the driveway(oil) or walk on his carpets(dirt).....they made a handsome couple....all except for his being so self absorbed that he never paid attention to her !
I am 5'9"(oh no) have long hair and tattoos,play Baseball and Paint for a living.I view work and money as a necessary to facilitate the peiods of goofing off,playing music,etc. in between jobs.
I vascillate between loving my wife enough to let her go,and than remembering that she already had that.The new car/house/boat/vacation/shop-at-the-mall set.
It bothers her (and a lot of others) that,to quote :"You're so smart....why don't you DO something with your life?"
Hmmmmmm. My Father was a Stanford undergrad, and than Got an MBA from Harvard.He qualified himself by how many thousands of dollars he was making a year versus how long he'd been out of school.I've never seen a picture of him where he's not in a designer suit,smoking his pipe with his VE RI TAS logo prominently displayed somewhere.
He was GONE traveling his whole life,making the next mansion payment,and than at the ripe old age of 45 drove into a concrete wall.
I think I'll enjoy this life and leave the status and getting rich to the others.I ditch work all the time to get home early to be with my kids.
...and of course,I'm the joke of the Family "If only he applied himself"....jokes on them.
I like your Fiance' a lot.I'm sure if you leave him,some other girl will end up liking him
too.He sounds like a great guy.
peace
Baseball65 |
| Suz |
Posted - 07/07/2005 : 09:02:09
Mala,
Thank you for sharing your marriage story with me. The way you feel about your husband is how I feel about my fiance - he is the funniest, kindest man in the world. I think he is very handsome. In fact I feel safe and wonderful when I am with him. You are right - it is up to me to have my own feelings and ignore everyone else's opinions. I have no idea why I so desperately want my mother's approval - after all I am 35 years old and hardly a child any more. I guess this is something I battle with and will get over. |
| mala |
Posted - 07/07/2005 : 05:53:27
I think the only concern I have is that he is not Mr. 6 foot tall and super fit - but he is very cute. Also, he has just started a new business and I make more money than him. Both of these things are really quite shallow but I still worry about them. My mother told me that people will always look at us as the odd couple - she said that I am basically too pretty for him. You can see what i am dealing with - it is awful. She called him "homely" looking and said he has a lower class look to him. It makes me feel sick to hear her say things like this
Suz,
I can understand you feeling awful about the way your mom talks about your fiance referring to him as having a lower class look (that's hitting below thw belt) but why do you put so much stock into what she is saying. Why do you need her approval that much. And by the way , there is nothing wrong with being homely . People have far better things to do than be interested in judging appearances. I frankly don't see people stopping you on the street saying 'Oh my god, you two really shouldn't be married. You're too pretty and you are too homely. There are millions of couples like you around the world.
Its not your mother's way of thinking that worries me but yours.
I got married when I was 36 and my husband Bob was 38. We had been dating for 2 years before we got married and this is our first marriage. He was a major in the British army when I met him. But he then took early retirement and decided to stay in HK. At the time we got married, he didn't have a job. Since then he has worked hard to get 2 higher degress as well as a professional one so that he could equip himself to find a job in a completely different field. This is despite his age.
Today after 10 years of marriage he earns more than I do. He is 30 pounds overweight and he doesn't have much hair (he was like this when we married) and people tell me that I am stunning. I'm Indian, he's a Brit. He's Catholic, I'm a Hindu. He has got a great sense of humour and is the kindest most supportive man I have ever known and all my friends and colleagues keep telling me how lucky I am (and dear God don't I know that). What we do have is a lot of love and a hell of a lot of respect for each other. That is why our marriage works and that is why any marriage works. To me he is the most handsome, most attractive man in the world.
It is all up to you how you want to make this marriage work. It is in your hands not your mother's not anyone else. Have confidence in yourself and in your man.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| Suz |
Posted - 07/06/2005 : 20:59:13
Mala,
You are so right - what my fiance has had to put up with is incredible. He has been by my side every step of the way for the last 3 years. When they didn't know what was wrong with my back and suspected I had ankylosing sponidilitis and were about to put me on enbril, he held my hand at every doctor visit. He changed his work schedule to drive me in to New York to have all the tests done as I really couldn't walk very well. This went on for 3 months. At the time, i was on steroids and was acting like a crazy person - very emotional and difficult.He has come round to my place in the middle of the night when the pain was so bad that I couldn't bear it.
On top of all of this, he knows that my family don't think he is "good enough" - really it is only my mother and stepfather. He has stuck by my side. We have exactly the same outlook on life - we both have a very deep faith in God and have the same view on marriage and children.
It is amazing that my deep fear of marriage can block all of these wonderful things out so i can't see the wood for the trees. You are right, it is hard to find good men and quite frankly he is one of the best.
I think the only concern I have is that he is not Mr. 6 foot tall and super fit - but he is very cute. Also, he has just started a new business and I make more money than him. Both of these things are really quite shallow but I still worry about them. My mother told me that people will always look at us as the odd couple - she said that I am basically too pretty for him. You can see what i am dealing with - it is awful. She called him "homely" looking and said he has a lower class look to him. It makes me feel sick to hear her say things like this |
| mala |
Posted - 07/06/2005 : 18:57:16
Suz,
I know he is the most wonderful man in the world and I adore him. I do not know if I love him enough to marry him - I have never loved anyone as much as I love him. But is that enough?
You say that you have never loved anyone as much as you love him and you also say he is the most wonderful man in the world. What more do you want to add to that before it is 'enough'?
Albert is absolutely right about good men growing on trees. You are indeed very lucky.
sometimes I fall into wondering if he is 'good enough" for me - as in background, education and looks. Quite awful arrogance really.
Yes, misplaced arrogance I think. It is good to be confident but not arrogant. As far as looks are concerned, they don't mean a thing. If you like the way he looks then that is all that matters. Period. And if good looks was a criteria for a happy and successful marriage , well then why do so many beautiful people break up.
As for the other two, well if you are thinking about it now chances are this will affect you even more after you have been married. Some women don't mind having a husband who is not as educated or successful as they are but for others it is a big deal. How is this going to affect you? If it is a big deal then you need to sort it out now. Once you get married you must be able to accept him for who and what he is. Problems in a marriage start when you try to start changing your partner when he or she doesn't want to. Never make them feel that they are not good enough or that you are better. Never.
You say that you started thinking like your mother as a survival tactic. I get the feeling you don't like the way she thinks yet there is danger of you becoming like her. The good thing is that you are not your mother, you are you so you are in control and can do something about it. Don't allow yourself to turn into her.
Remember that your fiance has to put up with your pain and your tms, not an easy thing to do. Also he has to put up with your family that don't like him. I think he is pretty brave, don't you?
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| Albert |
Posted - 07/06/2005 : 16:16:29
It's good to read that he's a good man. Good men don't exactly grow on trees. Of course that doesn't mean your marriage will be perfect. When is life ever perfect? Trust in your ability to deal with things. I believe that people have more of an ability to chose what thought patterns they are effected by than they tend to believe.
quote:
Originally posted by Suz
Albert,
That is a tough one for me. I know he is the most wonderful man in the world and I adore him. I do not know if I love him enough to marry him - I have never loved anyone as much as I love him. But is that enough? I also want to get married and start a family life. I am a worrywart by nature. I mean how does one really know if it will all work out or not?
My psychologist (the one Dr. Sarno referred me to) says that I shut down feelings - have switched off ability to have good or bad feelings as result of childhood trauma. That is why I developed TMS. She also said that I got used to thinking exactly the same thoughts as my mother as that was the only way to survive in my family - if you had any other thoughts, you were ostricized. It was very dangerous to disagree with her. This means that sometimes I fall into wondering if he is 'good enough" for me - as in background, education and looks. Quite awful arrogance really.
It is useful to understand all of this and why I think the way I do. I have this feeling that if I pass up on this man, I am mad as he is so wonderful.
|
| Suz |
Posted - 07/06/2005 : 13:21:25
Albert,
That is a tough one for me. I know he is the most wonderful man in the world and I adore him. I do not know if I love him enough to marry him - I have never loved anyone as much as I love him. But is that enough? I also want to get married and start a family life. I am a worrywart by nature. I mean how does one really know if it will all work out or not?
My psychologist (the one Dr. Sarno referred me to) says that I shut down feelings - have switched off ability to have good or bad feelings as result of childhood trauma. That is why I developed TMS. She also said that I got used to thinking exactly the same thoughts as my mother as that was the only way to survive in my family - if you had any other thoughts, you were ostricized. It was very dangerous to disagree with her. This means that sometimes I fall into wondering if he is 'good enough" for me - as in background, education and looks. Quite awful arrogance really.
It is useful to understand all of this and why I think the way I do. I have this feeling that if I pass up on this man, I am mad as he is so wonderful. |
| Albert |
Posted - 07/06/2005 : 10:23:25
If you're getting married again because you really want to rather than because it's the thing to do, and you "know" that the man your marying is a good person to marry, you shouldn't need to feel concerned. Is your mind worrying about getting married because it needs to, or is it just being a worrywart?
Regarding your mother's visit, try to look at it in a positive way. Perhaps an opportunity for personal growth. |
| Suz |
Posted - 07/06/2005 : 08:48:49
thank you very much for all the wonderful feedback. This site is so useful and helpful. The back pain has stopped finally. I have started to read the book again and also many posts on this site. It has been a terribly painful last few weeks and I was so happy to have a good night sleep. |
| mala |
Posted - 07/05/2005 : 20:09:49
Suz
Getting married is a big decision. the build up to it and then the marriage itself cause cause huge amounts of stress which can in turn aggravate any tms condition.
The thing is you have obviously given this a great deal of thought. The fact that you are discussing things over with your priest is great. I would hope that you are also talking things through with your fiance. Let him know about your fears , your concerns whatever feelings you may be having about this marriage.
Then stop obsessing. At some stage you will have to. Acknowledge that no marriage is going to be easy but also tell your brain that you are in control of whatever happens. Don't try to go around pleasing too many people and wearing yourself out in the process. Make this important occassion in your life one that you will both enjoy and get on with the task of making the marriage work.
So what if your mom doesn't think that he is good enough for you. Most moms think that no one is ever good enough for their 'little girl' but she has no business showing her displeasure. You are not a 'little girl' any more. It's not her business and she is stepping out of line and undermining you if she does. Don't let her do that to you. It is her problem if she doesn't like your fiance so let her deal with it.
Take control and stay in control. Tell your brain that you are strong and that whatever you do will be the right thing for you. Find strategies to help you cope with all this from your therapist if you need to.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| Baseball65 |
Posted - 07/05/2005 : 17:15:27
Hi Suz.
First off,the fact that you were in pain for that long might mean it might take awhile longer to recover...I recovered quickly,but was only 'down for the count' for about a year and a half.I read some of the horror stories and realize I was a relatively mild case,though if someone told me that at the time I would have screamed.
Secondly,I didn't STOP reading the book for 6 months.Even after I recovered,TMS tried to worm it's way back in a number of locations.
Also,I don't know if this might help,but my symptoms actually correspond to specific situations....my neck is always anger at someone not close to me(rage actually) and is usually masking good manners.My left leg sciatica is always family responsibilities,and my right leg is always being overwhelmed by work.
My middle back is always GUILT.The first time the middle of my back hurt ever was AFTER I was TMS saavy....I turned down a job with a Boss who was like Family and really needed me to go make more money for someone I had no 'loyalty' to.
The former Boss was like a second mother to me and pressured and called me everyday,telling me how bad her business was being hurt by my not being there.The symptoms went away with writing,though I had to take some Vicodin to get through the day at the more lucrative gig while I sorted it out.The whole ordeal lasted about 4 days,but having only been a Sarno-ite for a year or so,it scared the crap out of me.
I'd imagine you're right on the money by isolating the Parent/Money/Class distinction issue as being at the core.You probably feel some sort of repressed rage/guilt/shame at your parents not accepting your spouse.
As I've been learning vicariously through my own wife,those subconscious parent/manipulation strings transcend time,space and reality.Common sense goes out the window......our parents influences are like emotional tattoo's...they never really come off...we just can raise our awareness of their existence and hopefully use the exposed data to free ourselves from subconscious tyranny....TMS
your right on
Peace
Baseball65 |
| Suz |
Posted - 07/05/2005 : 15:12:04
Maryalma,
yes - I know exactly what you mean. I am very nervous about marrying again. I am going to talk about it this week with my psychologist and my priest also suggested that we take some more time if we need to and have a longer engagement. My main worry is about money and luckily we are discussing everything with our priest who is a great counselor. I did not do anything like this first time round so that gives me some comfort that i am going into this marriage in a very different way.
I am such a worrier by nature, that big life decisions are tough for me. As I have posted here before, my mother and various members of my family feel he isn't "good enough" for me as he is from a "working class" family. They have always placed very high expectations on me. Also, my parents had a nasty divorce so all this scares me even more. I know I love him and I really want to get married and have children, but I am so scared that I won't make it work. I am absolutely sure this is why I have been in so much pain. My pain started 12 years ago during my engagement to first husband. |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 07/05/2005 : 12:56:51
quote:
Originally posted by Suz
I am pretty scared about getting married again and I think that is where all this is coming from.
Suz- Maybe the TMS is trying to tell you something that you really need to listen to. Are you going into this marriage too fast? Are there things that are really bothering you that you are not paying close enough attention to? Our bodies often do things for a reason and I often think that TMS is one way that our bodies communicates with us when something is wrong that we need to really look at in a serious way. Just a thought. |
| Fredarm57 |
Posted - 07/05/2005 : 10:31:20
I know relapses are tough! The fact that you're linking it to stressful events is good--you have got the concept. That the pain is shifting position and timing is also a good sign--if it were structural, it wouldn't act like that. Try listening to mindfulness or meditation tapes if you wake up in the middle of the night. Try a couple of Tylenol PM's at bedtime. Keep reading the books--I found "Back Sense" by Ron Siegel helpful, it's good for those of us who take longer to get over the pain as it takes a longer view and has more suggestions for coping with the pain.
Fred |
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