| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Sarah Jacoba |
Posted - 07/13/2004 : 00:55:23
I decided to start a new thread, but this is really commentary on the austingary "versus" 100% psychological bit under the pelvic muscles topic.
I think it's a really interesting and emblematic issue, and I'm glad Dave doesnt mind it hashed out so explicitly. I can see both sides of the issue. I dont personally agree with austingary's take on physical exercises (more on that below) but I also think it's amazing how easily people seem to take issue with his emails. With Dave, I say, our faith in TMS theory shouldnt be that fragile!
on one hand, I think that thinking physical is dangerous indeed for TMS'rs. However, we all need to face our inner skeptic. And if Gary's personal take on things brings him/her up, so be it. It's critical we all learn to answer him/her satisfactorily. If Gary doesnt bring it up, someone else in our lives surely will. We cant insulate ourselves from the skepticism. We need to work through it, and I would hate to see Dave allow or disallow a certain percentage of focus on the physical from the board.
For me, thinking about posture or the like is not helpful. For my mind, it is negative energy that increases TMS symptoms. Example: recently I have had new symptoms in my lower body (now that my upper body ones are mostly gone for 6 months). When I think it might be my sitting posture and I should change that, I find I hurt more as the day goes on. If I embrace the pain, and blow it off, and willfully keep sitting "wrong" I find it is less later on. But that might be different for someone else, and so be it!
I havent minded, personally, Gary's somewhat conflicting viewpoint (to the above), and I haven't minded the occasional debate I've had with him. I would rather have someone who is obviously knowledgeable about and supportive of Sarno's theory in general to hash these kind of ideas out with than someone who isnt.
--Sarah
"When dream and day unite" |
| 8 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Sadiesue |
Posted - 07/17/2004 : 15:11:46
Hey Eileen, have you tried praying? It is really just a certain form of meditation. I have found that to be helpful not only with my TMS, but with depression and anxiety. I find it to be especially powerful because, for me, it is rooted in something I strongly believe in. I was trying all different forms of meditation, and found the most helpful for me was praying my rosary. Who woulda thought?! I don't think it matters what form or what religion (if any). I also try to incorporate some breathwork into my praying.
Just an idea . I also really like Rick Carson's "Taming Your Gremlin" book and audio program, and Andrew Weil's audiobook "Breathing: the Master Key to Self-Healing". |
| EileenTM |
Posted - 07/16/2004 : 23:57:32
Anne, Thank you for your reply. It was very helpful. I have been meditating. And I know it does help. It did help bring my depression down from a worse state. I will check out the authors you referred to. I have a lot of stuff I am dealing with including problems with my marriage which have actually gone on for a long time. So no surprise I am depressed. And I have been journaling my dreams. I did regular journaling for about a year. But I am a vivid dreamer and I find that I get a lot more information from my dreams. It's almost like they are a direct tie into my subconscious. Every night I have at least 2-3 dreams that I recall. So if I keep at it I should be better soon like you are. Thanks again for your help. |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/16/2004 : 11:44:00
I had anxiety and depression along with that. The anxiety is gone, but the depression lingers at a low level. Haven't been able to get those feelings of joy. I engage in all kinds of activities. How did your depression go away? Did it go at the same time as your back pain or did it take longer?
Hi Eileen
Your experience appears to be similar to my own. The low level depression you describe robs life of much of its joy. Of course, everyone is different and I believe recovery from a mind-body disorder such as TMS must be tailored to each individual - the bulk of that tailoring needs to be done by the person who knows the most - the sufferer.
I can certainly tell you how I dealt with it and I can say with some pride that I have been very successful. In fact something fundamental and for the better has happened to the way I look at life.
First of all, I read widely on anxiety/depression. The authors I found most useful were Jon Kabut-Zinn, Dr Claire Weekes and Rick Carson, but there are many other good ones.
I realised that I needed to get in and have a good look at the low level depression (like you, the anxiety faded with the pain). Up till then I had been looking for distractions that would help me escape from it and it just hadn't worked (a course of cognitive behaviour therapy arranged by my doctor had not helped at all - more escape techniques?).
I arranged psychotherapy for myself with a therapist who accepted 100% that physical pain could be caused by negative emotions. She helped me 'live mindfully' (Kabut-Zinn is good on that). At first, and for a long time, this was an exercise - teaching myself techniques that helped me be aware of life as I was living it, rather than always be thinking ahead or worrying about things in the past. It was very much a case of just doing: gradually, it became something that occurs naturally - sort of sneaked up on me. Now, I actually enjoy things as they are happening. It takes a while for the brain to become re-programmed, but it will happen if you keep at it.
I also began to meditate. Again, it was an exercise that seemed pretty meaingless for quite a long time, but I persevered and I find it really beneficial now. If you consider doing this - choose a method that is simple (Kabut-Zinn's is a bit complicated IMO).
Well done on dealing with the pain and anxiety - you are well on the way. Low level depression is difficult to shift, and for me, and I suspect for most of us, takes time, but as I said, recovery sort of sneaks up on you.
Take care
Anne |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 07/14/2004 : 20:38:14
quote:
Originally posted by AnneG
Thanks, Tom
Finding the right form of exercise needs some careful consideration. I am pretty unfit, although I can walk for hours and don't carry extra weight, so my cardio-vascular health is probably reasonable. Yoga is a good option and there are some very good groups in my area.
I won't be embarking on anything too strenuous at first - no tennis! Did you get Wimbledon on television the other week? Sharapova was amazing.
Dear AnneG,
I did watch as much Wimbledon as I could. Sharapova is quite a mature 17 year old. Federer is my favorite, continuing in the Sampras tradition. He may become the best ever. He is at the beginning of his career. I think he can win on clay which Pete couldn't do. With the ease of movement he shows, we will hopefully be able to watch him compete for many years.
As for your budding athletic career AnneG, I would recommend reviewing in MBP p.146-147, "PHYSICAL ACTIVITY AND THE FEAR FACTOR".
Here Sarno gives very good advice on resuming physical activity. I recall I found it very useful and the reassurance I was looking for.
Since you've been walking a lot and not carrying a lot of extra weight, it sounds like you're in good shape. Just avoid the week-end warrior syndrome, of over extending muscles that have not been used in along time. Do things with awareness and pay attention to what your body is telling you.
Good luck,
tt
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| EileenTM |
Posted - 07/14/2004 : 19:28:24
I read your comments with interest. I too, had bad back pain. And with reading the books and doing the work it has mostly disappeared. I had anxiety and depression along with that. The anxiety is gone, but the depression lingers at a low level. Haven't been able to get those feelings of joy. I engage in all kinds of activities. How did your depression go away? Did it go at the same time as your back pain or did it take longer? I cannot take medications as I am very sensitive to them. Anyway I think that is really a blessing in that it makes me deal with what is causing the depression rather than medicating it away. |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/14/2004 : 12:02:08
Thanks, Tom
You were right about the name change - it did reflect the negativity I felt. In fact, by the time I found this board the pervasive pessimism was beginning to lift because I had read MBP and began the psychological work.
Finding the right form of exercise needs some careful consideration. I am pretty unfit, although I can walk for hours and don't carry extra weight, so my cardio-vascular health is probably reasonable. Yoga is a good option and there are some very good groups in my area.
I haven't heard of Feldenkris - I'll check it out on the internet. The Alexander Technique is not really exercise as such - more a way of retraining in how to move and how to hold your body. I think I'm going to start with that. Tuition is on a one-to-one basis and there are only two trained practitioners here, so I hope one of them is good. One came to my house the other evening and gave me a free introductory session - she seems to be on the ball.
I won't be embarking on anything too strenuous at first - no tennis! Did you get Wimbledon on television the other week? Sharapova was amazing.
But back to Sarah's original point - my 'faith' in the TMS diagnosis was rock solid right from the start. I've mentioned before that I was on a quest to find out if what I strongly suspected was true - that my dreadful pain was psychological in origin, so I was very receptive to the ideas of Dr Sarno. I still feel the same way.
I certainly don't want to be unhelpful to anyone who doesn't want to think about posture etc. It is so very important to do the psychological work to the point that underlying thought patterns are changed and pain subsides as a result, but, if like me, the pain condition made exercise difficult, there may well come a time when priorities change - mine are no longer just getting through the day so that I could go back to bed and hopefully sleep would bring relief.
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 07/13/2004 : 15:00:25
Dear AnneG,
Congratulaions on your TMS success. I remember a year ago when I think you had to quit your job do to the pain. It's great you can go back to what you enjoyed doing. I agree with your post that we are at different stages in our TMS work. The newbies can take encouragement from success stories like yours. I recall suggesting to you that you change your board name because it looked too negative; I think originally it was "Anneg" or something like that. I hope I helped a little. AnneG sure sounds a lot cheerier.
As for your new exeercise program, only you know your body. If you havn't exercised much start slow. If you're in a group don't get caught up in competing until you are in good shape-it's the surest way to an injury and exercise setback. Feldenkris is probably good. I think it empahasises awareness. Yoga is good to. Swimming is one of the best. If you can afford it, get some private lessons so you learn the fundamental techniques and get individual attention for your body's needs. Try different activities and instructors. It's like TMS doctors, the good ones are few and far between. Don't hesitate switching if you don't have raport or the full attention of your instructor. |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/13/2004 : 12:10:41
Until quite recently 'thinking physical' would definitely have been counter-productive for me. Reading Dr Sarno's work was the beginning of my recovery from horrible back pain and depression. I never thought that I'd see the day that I'd be able to return to work - I'd given up in despair because of the dreadful pain; but that is where I am today; just over a year from when MBP dropped through my letter box from Amazon.
However, I am now at a stage where I have to acknowledge that my posture is pretty bad and I need to shape up generally. Whether the much milder lower back and neck pain that I still get from time to time is 100% TMS or a result of bad posture and physical inactivity, I'm not sure. What I do know is, though, that I am ready psychologically to tune up my neglected body.
I'm considering having tuition in the Alexander Technique, or I might work at Pete Egoscue's exercises. I'm reading about both just now.
Some of us who post here have made great progress using psychological work and there comes a point where we may want to discuss what others have done to get fitter generally with other TMS sufferers. I think that I would find that more helpful than chatting with people who have never had TMS.
People who post here are at all stages of TMS; from those who just suspect that they are suffering from it, right through to those are completely cured. Is it not the case that as the condition eases, what people feel the need to discuss will change? |
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