| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| aorta |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 14:30:20
Sort of a good move dave, although i wish people could have seen the link i left, or at least hope you saw it to know that i was sincere.
I will no longer be posting. Thanks to all who understood, and offered advice, most of which i will try to understand. I still think it should addressed as to whether or not this is a success story only board, and those in despair should remain silent.
best wishes
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| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Fredarm57 |
Posted - 06/24/2005 : 07:37:10
My experience is that the deeply repressed anger can be the underlying cause of a TMS episode, but that the anger and anxiety caused by the pain itself can perpetuate the episode. Even if you can't uncover the deeply repressed stuff, working on the pain-related anger and anixiety can be helpful. How do you do this? By reminding yourself that the pain is harmless, by trying to stay in the present and not worry about how long a pain episode is going to last, by trying to regain your life and do things that you enjoy.
My own personal belief is that everyone's approach to TMS ends up being a little different, that everyone has to find what works for them within the basic concepts of TMS. Some people's pain resoves in a few days by reading the book, some people have to go to a TMS doctor, some people (like me) take two years of psychotherapy. I personally found that Dr. Ron Siegel's approach, as set forth in "Back Sense", worked best for me (I was a patient of his). It's less "Freudian" and focuses more on how stress and the resulting muscle tension can cause back and other pain.
There are a lot of good people on this board, and all of them have different stories and advice to offer. They do it out of a sincere desire to help. All of the advice can get a little overwhelming. Take some time and see what makes sense to you and go with it. The good news is that you CAN find your way out of the TMS jungle! |
| Dave |
Posted - 06/24/2005 : 07:30:57
Two things:
1. None of us are "experts." I would say that even Dr. Sarno is not an expert. The brain is a complex machine and we do not understand even 1% of how it works.
2. Treating TMS is not an exact science. It is different for everybody. The line between conscious and unconscious emotions is fuzzy. Conscious anger is often a smokescreen for unconscious rage. For example, say you are stuck in traffic and you are in a rage. Where does this anger come from? Is it really because you will arrive at your destination 5 minutes later than you anticipated? Or is it because you are a perfectionist who seeks to control every aspect of your life and can't deal with the fact that the traffic is out of your control?
The single most important thing about TMS is to accept that the symptoms are benign and psychogenic, and to condition yourself to ignore them. This is really half the battle.
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| diverlarry |
Posted - 06/24/2005 : 05:05:55
2 very good points dave:
" Hyper-sensitivity is a personality trait that is not uncommon in TMS-prone people. If a message strikes a nerve, follow that feeling. You may learn something about yourself. "
"In the grand scheme of things, this forum is really not all that important. "
We are sometimes so busy worring about things, what people think, the past, the future we forget to live life.
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| n/a |
Posted - 06/24/2005 : 01:45:18
Aorta, that's exactly what I thought at first - that all the pain was causing the anxiety - not the other way round.
After all, a psychiatrist had diagnosed GAD in me as well. He had elaborated - health anxiety and anxiety about anxiety.
Can you, even at an intellectual level, try to think of it as the other way round? It doesn't matter at this stage if you truly, deeply believe it.
Give this a try - think back to when this started, or if it has been going on for a long time, when it worsened significantly. Think about what was going on in your life then, or prior to that time. Write it all down.
Post again after you have done that. It's not necessary to go into details about specifics if you don't feel comfortable with that. Just tell us in general if you notice anything.
I, for one will respond to that, but if you can't make that step which may start breaking into the dreadful pain/anxiety and depression cycle you are in - you definitely can't be helped by people on this board - you need to seek professional help asap.
Best wishes
Anne
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| art |
Posted - 06/24/2005 : 00:52:08
quote:
You dont seem to agree with the basic tms concept, be careful.
I would submit that this is the remark of an angry man. If you weren't aware of the anger as you wrote it, then eureka, you've found evidence of unconscious rage...
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| aorta |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 21:52:58
If i am to believe the experts here Art, its not the anger you are aware of, and believe it or not most of the time prior to these symptoms and their effects i am not consciously an angry person. Id say i have some GAD, things like the dentist appointment you mentioned. It wasnt until i was defending myself right and left here, that you should have noticed anger. All the rest is anger as to what happened to me in the last year, and all the costs.
I would say more, but it will be misconstrued. It seems you are talking about a more short term cause and effect thing, stress, followed by backpain. Whereas tms is involving chronic pain, if it is indeed what is ailing me, i would have to agree that its not the daily run of mill stress and pressures, but something larger.
You dont seem to agree with the basic tms concept, be careful.
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| art |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 21:36:03
I do not believe you need to sort out the unconsious from conscious...I don't anyway, and I'm having a fair amount of success with this stuff...My back went a couple of weeks ago and I immediately realized that it was due to the stress and anger of that particular day...A bike shop screwed up my bike, and then the dentist's office screwed up my appointment..neglected to put me in the book so that I ended up wasting two hours out of my day...
You've got plenty of anger to spare...it practically leaks out of each and every message you post...just accept that it's there.
Really,this isn't rocket science...if I can get it anyone can.. |
| aorta |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 21:22:27
Yes im still here folks.
Art,
Dave and others told me that this type of rage all revolves around my symptoms and therefore is not the underlying rage that is causing it all. See Dave, I was listening.
I certainly have rage about what these things have done to me in the last year art, I dont know who wouldnt, but as Dave pointed out, this is not the subconscious rage responsible for tms. |
| art |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 20:28:51
Aorta writes that he has yet to find his rage, and yet just yesterday had this to say
quote:
Im more pissed than words can describe. Ive lost so much time with my family. Ive missed some of my daughters events, that i would never miss. I love each moment of them. Im furious that a guy like me who is happy with his family, his house, his business, is having it all tortured away from him. Im pissed that i cant even take a pill to relieve this pain. I hate that i cant enjoy a movie, or even a nice breeze. Im disgusted with all the doctors that have seen me and had nothing to offer. Most of all im infuriated that every day my daughter asks me how i am, and i cant say good.This shouldnt happen to a criminal. Im pissed that i pray and pray, and get no relief. Im disgusted that i cant go on a vacation with my family and they are left dissapointed. I hate that they have to make stories up when people ask how i am. Hate, pissed, furious,rage. I hate that this will not leave.
???? |
| Susie |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 16:55:53
Aorta- you are being way too sensitive and reading this board wrong. I have found that when I get offbase on the forum, many will jump my bu--. Thats ok. It has always been very helpful to get constructive ctiticism. I think you are at a very low point and are seeing the negative rather than the constructive. It's all in your perception. I think you could gain alot from the board. Take the heat and it will make you gritier to fight tms. |
| aorta |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 16:50:41
One last last last time(for now anyway)
Its important that people know im sincere because i was accused of being a troll, and because, i am sincere, always, a goodist you see.
Under the present circumstances it is all important, running out of options.
There are many many posts, including yours, where you are frustrated with friends with health issues that "just dont get it".
Maybe, just maybe, they have other, not tms health issues. Maybe your diagnosis' arent correct. Or maybe they have a worse tms condition than you can imagine, or maybe it will just take a long time, but if you care about someone, you shouldnt get frustrated so easily.You never know, you may, and i mean you in general, need a little patience from someone sometime.
thanks dave |
| Dave |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 16:35:30
Again, I think you are overly sensitive to people's remarks here, and may be reading into things. Maybe I didn't read everyone's messages very closely, but maybe that's good advice for you: if somebody's messages offend you, then don't read them.
And even if another member wants you to stop posting, why should you care? And why is it so important for you to let everyone know that you are sincere? Who are they to exert any kind of control over you?
Are you sure that when somebody says "take a walk" they don't mean it literally?
Consider that you might be projecting your own feelings towards yourself on others.
Anyway, I hope you find what you are after. In the grand scheme of things, this forum is really not all that important. Good luck. |
| aorta |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 16:09:23
One last time Dave.
i understand that as this progressed it put you in a difficult position, i apologize.
I certainly hope you dont think i was attacking anyone, in fact after a while all i did was defend myself.
I am not unposting due to one individual, but there were many people here that felt I should stop.
My posts are here for the record. I believe you have my link that shows my posts about my condition on another board way before this time.
I did not criticize Dr. Sarno. I did not criticize tms. I certainly didnt mean to throw cold water on replies. As i mentioned, i am trying several things that people have suggested, and have ordered additional material that people suggested as well. I mentioned that i am at rock bottom now, a place im sure some of you have been. That being the case my expression is not positive thats for sure. Some people are at the middle of the ladder, some at the bottom, some at the top. It appears that many that are in the middle or the top, dont want to see whats on the bottom. When i asked, most of the replies were, read the books, which i have and am, or find your rage, which i have not. Some of my posts were desperate attempts to see how others found theirs, or what SPECIFIC methods they were using.Whenever i was negative, this was taken as anti-sarno, which is not true. If i were positive I would not have come here looking for help at all.
I was amazed that so many people politely or inpolitely suggested i take a walk. I think many are in the middle of the ladder and just want to hear a victory talk. This is a bit unusual in any forum concerning a devastating health problem. Its like being in a forum on anxiety, posting your feelings, and having people respond, "boy you have a problem you better get help somewhere but not here, ta ta.".
I hope that you keep an open mind and encourage open discussion, im sure there are many people out there that need help.
And may want to go deeper than,"its all in the books".Thanks again to all those that offered more personal replies and suggestions.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled whatever.
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| Dave |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 15:04:09
This is certainly not a "success story only" board. The forum policy is clearly spelled out. If you let others dissuade you from posting, then it is your decision. I never indicated that your posts were not welcome.
I rarely delete messages, even when threads stray far off topic. I have no patience for personal attacks; otherwise I usually take a hands off approach to moderating this forum.
This forum is occasionally visited by people whose intentions are questionable. People asking the same questions over and over as if they do not read the responses. People asking for advice and then pouring cold water on the replies. People offering contradictory opinions seemingly for the sole reason to stir up debate. People who take personal offense to responses. Some of these users return to the forum again and again, using different names. Given the history of this forum (and any public Internet forum for that matter) it is understandable that certain messages would be met with skepticism and even scorn.
I've said this before: those who are personally offended by a stranger's message on a forum should take a deep breath and think about what they are feeling. Hyper-sensitivity is a personality trait that is not uncommon in TMS-prone people. If a message strikes a nerve, follow that feeling. You may learn something about yourself. |
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